Episode #97 – Dr. Mary Gardner

Hospice with Heart
Dr. Mary Gardner discusses her remarkable journey from software development to becoming a pioneer in Veterinary hospice and geriatric pet care. She shares insights into senior pet wellness, end-of-life decision-making, the human-animal bond, technology’s role in Veterinary medicine, and how compassion and education are transforming care for aging pets and their families.

Transcript

Stacy Pursell:
Do you work in the animal health industry or veterinary profession? Have you ever wondered how successful people got their start and what led them to where they are today? Hi everyone. I’m Stacy Pursell, founder and CEO of The VET Recruiter, the leading executive search and recruiting firm specializing in the animal health industry and veterinary profession. I was the first recruiter in the United States to focus exclusively on this space, building the first search firm dedicated to this unique niche. Over the past 28 plus years, I’ve developed relationships with many of the industry’s top leaders and trailblazers. The People of Animal Health Podcast features the incredible individuals I’ve had the privilege to connect with throughout my career. In each episode, you’ll hear their stories, their career journeys, leadership lessons, and the impact they’ve made on the industry. With a wide range of expert guests, you’ll gain insights, inspiration, and ideas you can apply to your own career. Thanks for tuning in and enjoy the episode.
Hello everyone, and welcome to the People of Animal Health Podcast. Today, I am honored to welcome Dr. Mary Gardner, one of the world’s leading voices in veterinary hospice, geriatric medicine, and end-of-life care. Dr. Gardner is the co-founder of Lap of Love Veterinary Hospice, an organization that has transformed how families experience compassionate end-of-life care for their beloved pets. Before becoming a veterinarian, Mary spent nearly a decade working in software development and technology, a background that continues to influence her innovative approach to veterinary medicine today. She is also an accomplished author, educator, international speaker, and co-founder of Noodle U, where she helps make veterinary education engaging, practical and enjoyable. Her passion for senior pets, hospice care, and strengthening the human-animal bond has inspired veterinary professionals and pet owners around the world. Mary, welcome to the People of Animal Health Podcast, and how are you today?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I’m good, Stacy. Forgot to add that we’ve known each other for over a decade. It’s been a long time.

Stacy Pursell:
We have, yes, that’s right. And I’m so excited. I’ve heard parts of your story over the years, but I’m so excited to have you here as my guest. And I would love to start off at the beginning of your life. Where’d you grow up and what was life like growing up?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Well, I’m a New Yorker, but those from the five boroughs would call me an Upstater, but I am from the south of New York State. My father worked in the city, but wanted us to grow up in the country, so just in Orange County, New York, and just lived country life. We had a couple of acres. My parents divorced though when I was about nine, and so I was primarily raised by my mom, so single mom and just went from boarding house to somebody else’s couch to we just made ends meet roughly. And then when I graduated high school, just ended up going down south to South Carolina first and then University of Miami for marine science degree.

Stacy Pursell:
Well, when did you first become interested in veterinary medicine and what led to you becoming a veterinarian?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Okay, so I was not interested in being a vet when I was growing up. So many people, Stacy, are like, “Oh, I knew when I was a kid.” And I loved animals, but I was not the smartest kid in this class. I was just scraping by. I set my bar low. I just wanted to get through school. And I really actually just love the ocean and marine life. So that’s why I went for marine science. A dolphin trainer or something like that would’ve been just great. Now, I’m an ’80s girl, so this is back when Flipper was okay. I know better now. But it wasn’t until though a pretty bad experience with my own loss of my own pet that made me consider going into veterinary medicine.
So as you mentioned, I spent 10 years, I didn’t even do marine science. I ended up in software development, just twist to fate stuff, and really enjoyed just the design process of software. So that was in the ’90s and 2000s. And when there was a lot of cool, exciting stuff. Not that there’s not cool stuff now, but the dot-com bubble was happening. I remember before there was a WWW. And so that was just such a great time of my life is doing that software development and all the things that I learned from all the companies that we serviced.
But my first dog that I had really had was with me as an adult. And my relative was babysitting my dog while I was traveling for work. And his Rottweilers and my dog, who was a Samoyed, got in a really bad fight. So she spent three weeks in and out of the hospital trying to get over her 72 bite wounds in a broken jaw, just very sick. And she sadly passed from that. And I just felt so helpless not being able to… I couldn’t get the medications down her. I couldn’t fix her wounds. I just tried so hard to care for her, and that death just really hit me hard. That was my first dog, mine.
And so a few months go by, and you just do crazy stuff when you’re in grief, Stacy. And I just woke up one day just having such a horrible remembrance of what happened. And I thought, “I wonder what I need to do to get back into school and maybe be a vet.” And just feel like I let her down. And so how could I help her? And so that’s when I started to take some night classes to get the classes that I needed. I worked at the Humane Society on the weekends because I was still working my full-time job, and then I got a job as a kennel worker. And so just cleaning kennels, start from the bottom in my 30s. So then I got into the University of Florida, thankfully, and then graduated in 2008. So I’m what they call a second career vet.

Stacy Pursell:
Well, you have often spoken about your special love for senior pets. What is it about geriatric animals that connects with you so deeply?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I could see a kitten or a puppy and I appreciate them, but you give me a crunchy old kitty cat or a wobbly dog, like an old guy, I just go bonkers for them. I feel the same way about elder people too. Just there’s something magical about the stories that they have, how much they’ve meant to the family. I could see the desperation in family’s faces that they know that time is coming. And just being in the end-of-life space for 16 years, those are the typical pets that we see, and I just see their struggles and what we could do to help them. So I don’t know what it is about the oldies, but man, gray muzzles just are my favorite.

Stacy Pursell:
Well, Mary, as co-founder of Lap of Love Veterinary Hospice, you helped pioneer in-home end-of-life veterinary care. What unmet need did you see in the profession that inspired you to create Lap of Love?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Well, I love general practice. I was in GP for a little bit, and there’s just something missing there. And I loved the clinic I was at, Pet Vet Animal Hospital in Deerfield Beach, Florida. I have to give them a shout-out. Loved them, loved the families. But I just wanted to do something more or different. And so I was looking outside of general practice to do something different. I was actually interviewing with pharmaceutical companies and technology companies. And it was my classmate, Dani McVety, who was an emergency veterinarian in Tampa, Florida, which about four hours north of me. And she was doing in-home euthanasia. And I had done some in-home euthanasia from my clinic as well. And she was like, “Hey, I’m doing this, but I do all my medical records manual and the client notifications to the clinics,” and all these things that she was doing manual. And so she said, “Maybe you can help build software, and maybe this is something you want to do.” And Stacy, I though, “Heck no, I don’t want to do that.”
But I went and talked to her, and just the light bulb went off. And I thought, “Oh, my gosh, if we could make saying goodbye at home way more common, have it to be the normal, have it to be what people ask for, I’ve come full circle.” Because the death of Snow White, that was my girl’s name, led to me leaving a really good job and going to school, going into debt, all these things. So I just though, “Let’s do it.” And there wasn’t any software that could help. All the PIMs that were out there was just for clinic work. So it’s not that vets weren’t doing it from their clinic, but it just wasn’t the norm. And I think that’s what we saw. Dani and I saw that why not be the norm is to go to the home? Mobile GP has been around for a long time, and a lot of times they’re so busy because families need end-of-life help quit pretty urgently. So it was just such a perfect niche that her and I both just fell in love with the idea of growing it across the country.
And so that’s what we did. Started in 2009 and now 17 years later we’re in, I don’t know, I think 42 states or something like that. So it’s been a lot of hard work though, but our goal is that a family knows their options, and if they would like to say goodbye at home, that somebody nearby can help.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah. And I remember when you were first starting the business, and congrats on such incredible growth now in 42 states. Well, Mary, what do you think pet owners misunderstand most about hospice care?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
You know what? It’s not just pet owners. I think this is vets too, Stacy. I feel like some might think that we’re prolonging the inevitable. And dare I say, a lot that we do in medicine prolongs the inevitable. And this is human medicine as well. But if you’ve got a kitty cat with lymphoma, one might say doing chemo is prolonging the inevitable or osteosarcoma in a dog or whatever it might be, but it is so not that. So people also think they’re giving up. And it’s not that we’re giving up, but our focus just shifts. So it’s a shift from curing and just focus on caring. And I think that it’s nothing to be scared of, and people are scared of it. Once you say, “Hospice,” even in the human space, you just think, “Okay, we’ve got a few days.” And the sooner you start hospice actually, the longer the good quality of life can be.
So unfortunately, I think even in human space, we start hospice way too late. I wish people would come see us six months before we think that time is near. And like I said, it doesn’t mean we stop trying for curing, but it’s really focusing on care. And when you’ve got good pain relief and you’re sleeping better at night and quality of sleep and the caregivers feel supported and know how to help manage your symptoms better, then you feel better and you actually live better and maybe a little longer too.

Stacy Pursell:
That makes so much sense. And I know that end-of-life care is one of the most emotional experiences pet owners face. What have you learned about helping families navigate grief, uncertainty, and incredibly difficult decisions?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
First, no judgment. And I think that’s so important is not to have any judgment to what the family wants. They might want to do it sooner than you would if it was your pet. They may want to wait a little bit longer. And as long as that pet’s not suffering, then I’m okay with that. Don’t judge how they want to do it. Don’t judge if they want their ashes back or not. Don’t judge if they want to hold onto their pet for three days afterwards because they just want to see them for… I’ve been in thousands of homes and every single one of them is unique and nobody is right or wrong. And I think that grief is so bespoke to the person, to the situation, to the family, and that’s okay. And it’s a beautiful thing to see so much love. I see sadness, but I see so much love.

Stacy Pursell:
Is there a patient or family that you’ll never forget?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Oh, my gosh. Stacy, I’m not a journaler, but I’ve got so many in my journal. Gosh, and I’ve been into some such cool families, but one of my favorites to me was actually I helped a deaf family with their pet, Emma. And Emma was an Australian shepherd with the most beautiful blue eyes. But the mom was able to read my lips a little bit and sign language then to her husband, but it was such a quiet space. Nobody talked. Nobody said anything obviously, except for me with my loud mouth. But I had to shift how I said things because I was just slightly ignorant like is she going to translate this exactly how I’d like it to be? Because I’m so specific with my words of how I say things.
But it was just so quiet. And I remember the family wasn’t talking like I said, but when I gave the sedation to Emma, and then it was time for the second medication, I said to them, and I normally say something a little bit different, but I said to them, “It’s time to say goodbye.” I’m about to give the second medication. And she signed it to the husband who had not said anything for the whole hour. And he kneels down because he was pacing, he was so anxious. And he kneels down and he says, “Bye, Emma.” And he normally doesn’t speak.

Stacy Pursell:
Wow.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
And it was just because I said, “It’s time to say goodbye.” I get nerves. I got chills just thinking about it again. And it was the most sweetest thing I ever heard was it was just silence for that whole hour except for, “Bye Emma.” And that was the first time I think she’s heard him say something.

Stacy Pursell:
Wow.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
And it was just so great. But my book of awesome stories is so full. It’s just a great niche to be in.

Stacy Pursell:
Oh, yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that story. And I know one of the hardest conversations veterinarians have is discussing quality of life. What guidance do you give families who struggle with knowing when it’s time to say goodbye?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
It’s my favorite conversation, but Stacy, it could take 30 minutes, 45 minutes. What we shouldn’t do is think, “You’ll know when it’s time.” I hate that saying. You do know when it’s time when your pet’s massively suffering. It’s when it’s so obvious that… But do we ever want our pets to suffer?

Stacy Pursell:
No.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
No. So we have to say goodbye probably before that point. So it’s really hard for people to gauge when that point is. So it’s also not just when they stop eating, because if you’ve got a yellow Lab with arthritis, they’re eating on their goodbye day. This is dependent on the disease they may have. So it is so custom to the situation. It’s custom to the family and the caregiving, what they’re able to do. You could have a dog with cognitive dysfunction that’s keeping everybody up at night and they’re arguing with each other and six hours of the day he’s fine, but the other he’s pacing. But is that…
It’s just such an important conversation to have because I don’t want people to have guilt over what their decision is. And the majority of time that we see families is a very subjective time period. And that’s what I say is at any time I support your decision to say goodbye. If you call me on a Monday and you said, “We had the worst weekend, can you come and help me?” I will. If you call me on a Monday and say, “We had the best weekend, will you come and say goodbye? Because that’s what we want his last weekend to be,” then I will. And it’s okay to say goodbye. And I prefer to say goodbye a week too soon than a moment too late. But that’s sometimes really hard because none of us want to ever say goodbye.

Stacy Pursell:
And then how can veterinarians better care for themselves while caring for grieving families?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Yeah. It’s funny because so many people think that myself or the Lap of Love veterinarians have compassion fatigue, and none of us do. We’re oozing of compassion. That’s why we do this job. Do we have drive fatigue? Yeah. Do we have our own fatigue from life stuff? Sure, but not compassion fatigue. But what I can say is what’s helped me is that compassion is the recognition of suffering and the desire to change that suffering. And that’s what we do with euthanasia. We see the pet is not well, we see the family’s not well, and we get to change that. It’s sad, yes. But what you can be in charge of is how you do it. And if you do it well and you give the family such an amazing goodbye experience, then that’s actually quite miraculous. It’s such a wonderful feeling to be able to give the family that beautiful goodbye. So if you just focus on that, then you shouldn’t have too much trouble.

Stacy Pursell:
Hey everyone, we are interrupting the episode briefly to talk to you about today’s sponsor. This episode is brought to you by The VET Recruiter. The VET Recruiter is the go-to executive search and recruitment firm in the animal health industry and veterinary profession dedicated to connecting exceptional employers with high caliber candidates. With a deep understanding of the animal health industry and veterinary profession and a vast pool of talented candidates, we make the hiring process seamless and efficient for the animal health and veterinary employers who have critical hiring needs. If you are an employer in search of top talent or you work in the animal health industry or are a veterinarian ready to take the next step in your career, look no further than The VET Recruiter. The VET Recruiter has placed many of the industry’s top leaders from CEOs to COOs to chief veterinary officers to VPs of marketing and sales and heads of R&D and chief scientific officers.
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Well, Mary, your background in technology is unique in veterinary medicine. How has your software and systems experience influenced the way hospice care is delivered today?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Yeah, I’m a bit of a geek like that. So we did build our own practice management software, which is really very robust for what we do in managing vets across all the states, all the different cities, all the different regulatory issues. That’s the other thing. There’s so much state requirements of bite cases, of scratch case. Everything is different. The DEA drug logs are all different. But we’ve created in our software hospice care notes and a whole function for our vets. So that way it’s really easy for them to leave a hospice appointment, write their care instructions, and then our nurses help then carry that forward to the families. So that’s all within our system. So it makes it very easy for them to manage their cases.
But also outside of that, we’ve created things like the Pet Hospice Journal, which is for families. It’s free for any family. They can create a profile for their pets and track things like their pet’s favorite things, like the symptoms that they’re managing. And they can track over time to say, “You know what? His mobility has gotten better. He’s sleeping better at night,” or, “He’s not been eating as well.” Attaching pictures. And we have hundreds of families that are now using this. I originally built it in 2013, but we just released the new and improved version this year. And it’s a great way for families just to notate changes that are happening in their pet and getting some charts and graphs and reminders and stuff like that. And what’s nice is they can actually email that to their regular veterinarian, so that way the regular veterinarian could be up to speed on what’s going on with their pet.
So anytime we could build something that helps make either our vet’s lives better doing this kind of work and also our family helping them manage their pet, we’re all up for it. But we’ve got now, Stacy, there’s 20 people on the technology team. So it’s not just me geeking out anymore. So I get to hang out with other like-minded geeks.

Stacy Pursell:
Well, Mary, you are internationally recognized for speaking on hospice care, geriatric medicine and euthanasia. Why do you think these important topics were historically underrepresented in veterinary education?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I think that conference organizers, like many, were death adverse and they’re like, “Nobody’s going to want to go sit in a talk on euthanasia or on hospice.” And I would tell them, “I need more than an hour. I need all day. And if you don’t give me all day, I’m going to have all the questions coming to me from what sedation protocol do you use to what do you do with the ashes that families don’t come to pick up after a year?” So they were really nervous at first. And also veterinary hospice was still very new 17 years ago. They had not heard of it and they thought it was like that’s some witchcraft or something like that. But I think they were just thinking it’s sad and nobody’s going to want to sit through it.
But my rooms are packed sometimes. I’ve had 500 in one room. It was crazy. And it was amazing to see vets want to do better. They want to know what to say under certain situations. They don’t always get that in vet school. Now it’s getting a little bit better. The last five or six years, vet schools are now having some courses on it, but it’s still not something that they leave vet school having a great knowledge of.

Stacy Pursell:
Well, through Noodle U you have taken a fresh and creative approach to continuing education. What makes learning with a fun twist so effective for veterinary professionals?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Noodle U is a little fun project, if you will, of myself and Eric Garcia, one of my besties. Him and I both were, as you mentioned, we speak a lot. And when COVID hit, all the conferences shut down and our speaking shut down, but him and I still loved to do it. So instantly we said, “Let’s build this virtual education.” And at the time it was all the state CEs were scrambling and trying to figure out Zoom and all that stuff. And we’re like, “And let’s make it fun.” And every time we go to conferences, we say to each other like, “Oh, what are you noodling on? And what did you learn? And what am I going to noodle on?” So I said, well, let’s call it Noodle. And then he’s like, “Well, let’s make it more professional, Noodle U.”
But we wanted to have fun. So we are goofy. We’re not sticks in the mud. But one of the things that we like to do is bring really great keynotes on to… We’ve had Suze Orman, who’s massive financial advisor. We’ve had Captain Sandy from Below Deck. So we’ve had Shawn Anchor, really good keynotes that we dedicate some time to live Q&A for. So most keynotes, you sit here on the stage and they run off. But our attendees can ask Suze Orman questions, which is so much fun. And we’ve done murder mystery and we have themes. And learning, especially sitting in your room in your house can get a little boring. So we try to make it fun, and that’s what we’ve done. And it’s not for everybody, but those that are Noodlers understand. Our first one, we even had a friend of mine Tex, he’s a personal trainer, and we did 7:00 AM personal training, and everybody was doing stretches and squats and stuff like that. And this was all virtual, so we were trying anything.

Stacy Pursell:
That is fun. Well, Mary, you’ve written books for both pet owners and veterinary professionals. What do you hope readers take away after finishing your work?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I try to make it easy reading. Although some of my books are 500 pages long, but I promise they’re easy reading. And I want them to know they’re not alone. And I think so many people, especially when you’re caregivers, you get in this vacuum of being embarrassed, being ashamed, being scared to tell people what you’re thinking. You’re scared to think, “I’m tired. I don’t want to pick up poo anymore.” All these things. So I want them to feel empowered that there’s some tips and tricks that they could do to make their lives easier. And also, if they can’t handle it anymore, it’s okay to say goodbye. But I just want people to not be scared of caring for their older pet. Did you know that about 50% of families that have their pets euthanized in general practice have not been to their doctor a year before?

Stacy Pursell:
Really?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
A year before is about 50%. It’s a little bit more for cats and a little bit less than dogs, but on average it’s 50%. Which means the last year of your pet’s life, which is usually the one that’s chock-full of symptoms and problems and ailments, they’re not getting any help with.

Stacy Pursell:
They need to get to the vet more.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
They got to get to the vet. So almost every chapter in my books, I talk about, let’s say, mobility issues or vision issues and stuff like that. At the end, I’m like, “Go see your vet because they can help. Don’t just think we’re just trying to get money the last year of their life.” No, these guys need help and so does the caregiver.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah. Veterinarians do not go into the veterinary profession to make money. That’s not the goal.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
No, I would’ve stayed in software.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah. It’s not that making money’s bad. It’s just that I’ve never heard a veterinarian say, “I went into this to make money.”

Dr. Mary Gardner:
No, not at all.

Stacy Pursell:
So looking ahead, how do you hope the profession continues to evolve in caring for senior pets, hospice patients, and the families who love them?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I hope more marketing is directed to senior pets. If you look at websites or you look at pharmaceutical company and their campaigns, it’s all these adult or young pets, beautiful looking Labs, beautiful looking cats, stuff like that. We really should start marketing to the highest percent of pets is seven years or older. So 44% of our pet population is 7 years or older. They’re seniors or geriatrics, but almost 0% of websites look like that. So when you are a pet owner and you’ve got this very old Labrador, Doberman, I love Dobermans too, and you’re looking at a website and it’s full of puppies and kittens, they’re not really helping you out. But if you saw the mix of demographics and saw some older pets, then you might be more encouraged to go in to see them. And that’s maybe one reason why so many aren’t going in.

Stacy Pursell:
That’s a tip for the web developers and the marketing people in the vet profession.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Totally. Totally.

Stacy Pursell:
What gives you the most optimism about the future of the veterinary profession?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Oh, you know what? I am very optimistic. I know some people are pessimistic in this and prices are high and stuff like that. I love going to the vet schools and I lecture a lot to the vet students and they’re all so geared up and ready to help. It’s just lovely to see. And I think we need to remember the vet students that are out there and encourage them to be in our profession. And I love to see older vets like me that when I was starting, I was in my 30s and 40s. It’s so good to see it. There’s such great new technologies out there, but it’s a lot. There’s so much. I always hear people say like, “Oh, well, I didn’t learn that in vet school.” Well, I didn’t want to be in vet school for eight years. You can’t learn everything in vet school. So it’s always a learning. There’s new inventions coming out, there’s new medications coming out. It’s awesome what this technology and medicine and all the things that are out there available. So I’m very optimistic.

Stacy Pursell:
Well, good. What has surprised you the most during your veterinary career?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Surprised me the most? I’d say actually some haters. I’m surprised that some colleagues might be so mean to each other. I can’t stand I see in social media groups, and especially if you could be anonymous, then people tend to be mean and I’m like, “We’re all in this profession. I got 99 problems and I don’t want another vet to be one of them.” And I’m really surprised at some of the nasty stuff that I see in some groups. And so that saddens me. I think we need to be very supportive of each other.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah, be kind.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Be kind.

Stacy Pursell:
How have you seen the veterinary profession change since you first entered it?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Gosh, I think it is just a lot of cool technologies out there. Everything from wearables to what AI is doing to amazing different medications out there. So I think we are in such a great exponential space for technology to help guide us through stuff. So it’s been good. And when I was in vet school, I forget what the percentage was, Stacy, but it was definitely more girls than boys, but that’s even more nowadays. So it’s interesting to see the demographic shift a bit more. So I’d like to see more guys coming back through. I think it’s great to have a healthy mix.

Stacy Pursell:
I’ve heard other people say that recently too, because someone said this morning, I know that 90-something percent of the students coming out are women, but somebody said today 86% of the vets are women. Is that true? Is that right?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I think I was in the 70s percent or more. I think there was 20 guys at least in my class and there was 80 people in my… I can’t do the math off my head. But it’s just an interesting demographical shift and I think I would love to see more guys in it. And just they bring a great perspective, all walks of life. Come on, great.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah, I agree. I would too. So if you’re listening and you’re a guy, consider being a veterinarian.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Exactly.

Stacy Pursell:
We need more of you. Well, Mary, if you looked into your crystal ball, what do you believe the future of veterinary medicine looks like over the next 10 to 20 years?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I think we’ll see the pendulum switch to more independent practices. Again, I know there’s been a lot of consolidation and whatnot, which has got good and bad aspects to it. Just like independent has good and bad aspects to it. But I do think this is a really great time for people that want to open a clinic to open their own clinic. And so I hope to see a good mix of both larger corporations and independents again. I think that would be a really good, healthy mix.

Stacy Pursell:
What has been the most rewarding moment of your career?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Oh, my gosh. Stacy, I spoke in Oregon State University in October of 2013, and a few months later they called me and said, “Hey, we would like for you to be our keynote.” And I’m like, “Okay, what conference?” I’ve been the keynote at conferences. And they said, “No, keynote for our graduation in 2014.” And being asked to be the keynote at a graduation was the most amazing thing. And after just lecturing on euthanasia, I try to make it fun. As horrible of a topic, but you got to make it a little fun. And it was great. I was asked again in 2019, the University of Florida, but the dates didn’t work for me, so I wasn’t able to do it. So both of those were just amazing opportunities. And, of course, now OSU graduating class of 2014 has got my heart.

Stacy Pursell:
Oh, I love that. Well, Mary, you’ve been very successful. Are there a few daily habits or routines that you believe have contributed most to your success?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
So many of us have different ways that we work and I am a pretty good multitasker, which is helpful. Every night before I go to bed, and I know that people say you shouldn’t do this, but I look at my phone, I look at my calendar for the next day. What do I got to get up and do? So that way, you know what? If I see that I don’t have a meeting till 10:00, maybe I am going to go work out at 8:00 and get a workout in. But if I know I’ve got to call at 8:30, I can’t, so I’m going to put that somewhere else. So I like to always at night go look at what my next day is going to be. And it’s hard because I do work quite a lot and sometimes it’s not good. I know that. And that’s okay.
It’s been my passion. It’s my hobby. Everything is work. I think having people around you that also cannot be smarter than you, but just bring other… You don’t have to be the smartest one in the room. It’s so cool to learn from others. And so I just surround myself with just badass people.

Stacy Pursell:
That’s refreshing, isn’t it, that you don’t have to be the smartest person in the room?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Yeah. Totally.

Stacy Pursell:
What would you say has been the greatest challenge or adversity that you’ve had to overcome during your career?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Gosh. Well, I think two things. One, in the beginning, we really… It’s funny because the career has just changed so much. So in the beginning of Lap of Love, we had a lot of educating people to do. Nobody knew about hospice, we were made fun of like, “Oh, that is prolonging suffering.” All the noise. And so that was tough, but we worked through it and we just kept educated and normalize it a bit. And now the pendulum has swung. And what’s really challenging for me is actually the false narratives that are out there that can be found in some different veterinary groups or some of the noise that people might be saying, “Oh, Lap of Love, they’re so big and they’re corporate and stuff like that.” And I’m like, “Every one of my vets has my phone number. We are very tight. Yes, we’re big, but that’s we always want it to be.”
So now the challenge is balancing our size being so big, but also still being very tight of a family and dealing with the haters out there. It’s tough. I try not to let them live rent-free in my brain, but it’s not easy.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah, I know what you mean. If you could sit down with your younger self, what advice would you give?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I loved all the mistakes I’ve made. I loved all the scars I’ve gotten. I think that’s what’s made me resilient and made me successful is all the stuff. I think this is not even going to be an intelligent answer, Stacy. I’m going to be like, “Mary, when you’re 21, say no to going brown hair because it does not work for me at all. Stick to blonde.”

Stacy Pursell:
You look great as a blonde.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I know. That was my biggest mistake. I’m like, “Oh.” Actually, I did it again when I was 35, graduating vet school. My graduating pictures were the brunette. I’m like, “No.” But other than that, I wouldn’t tell myself to do anything different.

Stacy Pursell:
That’s good.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
I think, you know what? There was a few people I might’ve been sassy to or said something I wish I didn’t. And maybe, again, “Be kind even when it’s hard.”

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah. Well, Mary, is there a principle, lesson, or message you wish everyone could learn?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
That’s a good one. I know there’s always the typical be kind and stuff like that. I think no judgment is… Go back to that one. I think we can be so judgy in life. And what makes all humanity so beautiful is all of our differences. And so I think just lean on, don’t judge.

Stacy Pursell:
I like that. Many of our guests point to one book that fundamentally changed the way they think or approach life. Is there a book that has that kind of impact on you?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Okay, so not necessarily life, but what I do. And that is a book by Atul Gawande, and it’s called Being Mortal. And I’m not a huge reader. I’ve got a ton of books and I just, starting to read them, I get sidetracked and I’m too busy. But Atul Gawande Being Mortal, he’s a human physician and he writes about aging and our aging population and hospice for humans, and it’s game-changing. I’ve read it four times. I could read it again. I could read it every year. Love it.

Stacy Pursell:
Well, finally, you’ve got the mic. What’s one message you’d like to leave with our listeners before you drop the mic today?

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Oh, my gosh, dropping the mic. Let’s see. I would say try not to have any regrets because sadness is temporary, but regret could be a lifelong that faces you, right?

Stacy Pursell:
That sounds good.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
So no regrets. No regerts.

Stacy Pursell:
Have no regrets.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Because as the tattoo commercial says, “No regerts.”

Stacy Pursell:
Well, Mary, thank you for being my guest today on the People of Animal Health Podcast. I’ve enjoyed the time together with you.

Dr. Mary Gardner:
Oh, you’re very welcome, Stacy. Thanks for having me.