Episode #63 – Dr. Lisa Lippman

Do you work in the animal health industry or veterinary profession? Have you ever wondered how people began their careers and how they got to where they are today? Hi everyone. I’m Stacy Pursell, the founder and CEO of The VET Recruiter, the leading executive search and recruiting firm for the animal health industry and veterinary profession. I was the first recruiter to specialize in the animal health industry and veterinary profession in the United States, and built the first search firm to serve this unique niche. For the past 25 plus years, I have built relationships with the industry’s top leaders and trailblazers.

The People of Animal Health podcast highlights incredible individuals I have connected with throughout my career. You’ll be able to learn more about their lives, careers, and contributions with our wide range of expert guests. You’ll be sure to learn something new in every episode. Thanks for tuning in and enjoy the episode.

Welcome to the People of Animal Health podcast. Today, we’re joined by Dr. Lisa Lippman, veterinarian, entrepreneur, and a leading voice in virtual veterinary care. As the director of virtual medicine at Bond Vet, Lisa has shaped the future of pet telehealth, making high-quality accessible care the norm for thousands of pet parents. She’s also a passionate advocate for senior dogs and rescue animals.

With a background in emergency medicine and media-savvy communication, Lisa brings a unique blend of clinical expertise and compassionate innovation to everything she does. She’s also co-founded a pet loss and grief community and senior dog veterinary society to help veterinarians become senior dog certified. She wants other veterinarians to become certified and elevating the standard of care.

Lisa, we first met when I helped place you in your first job right after veterinary school, and then later I helped place you in a second position in your career. I’m so excited to have you onto the podcast today. Lisa, I want to welcome you to the People of Animal Health podcast.

Yeah, thanks for having me, Stacy. It’s exciting to be here and really full circle after I’ve known you for, I guess, it’s been around 11 years now, so really crazy.

Yeah, it has been. I’ve enjoyed watching your career. And Lisa, you’ve led the expansion of Bond Vets Telehealth Services across the Northeast. What sparked your passion for virtual medicine and how has your vision evolved since that initial launch?

Well, I think you mentioned in the beginning high quality access to care, and that’s just so incredibly important. Really, the program stemmed out of the pandemic. I’ve always believed there was a need before that. People often just want to talk to somebody, want to know, do I need to be seen? Is this an emergency? Am I overreacting?

It tends to be more affordable, more convenient. You’re going to get people who just wouldn’t have gone in for care at all or sure if they need it. People just so often want somebody to talk to, and I think I’ve always been happy to be that person.

Well, you began with empathy focused in home veterinary visits and now direct a whole virtual medicine program. How did your early vets in the city approach shape your priorities in remote care?

Yeah, well, I think I had a very high touch concierge house call veterinary practice and wound up doing a little bit of telehealth on its own, and I think almost, I think every vet does telehealth. Telehealth by definition is the education of any information through an online or virtual platform.

And so it’s something I was already doing and so many veterinarians do, but they don’t get charged for it. They don’t really value their time, and there’s so much time we spend in answering questions, doing follow-ups, things like that. So I think it was just sort of a natural progression.

And then over the pandemic, in the very beginning of the pandemic, both of my parents got put on ventilators due to COVID, which was just absolutely traumatic. They survived. They’re okay, but I really needed to be with them while they were recovering. And so that’s when this opportunity came up and Bond Vet said, “We’re going to start this telehealth program.” And I said, “Oh, that’s right up my alley. I’d love to help you start it and see where it goes.”

And everybody loved it so much, and it’s just really, again, about innovation and access to care. I think that’s what makes it unique. It’s what makes Bond unique, so everything is just high touch support of the pet parent, so it really carried over.

Well, I know the Bond Vet emphasizes that a 20-minute virtual visit mimics in-person care. What’s your secret to ensuring clinical thoroughness and pet and pet owner comfort during those virtual sessions?

Yeah, not sure. I mean, I’m not aware that we say that anywhere on the website. I don’t think that it mimics in-person care. I think that absolutely every pet needs a physical exam in the clinic at least once a year. Telehealth absolutely does not replace the physical exam, but it can be a really point of care exam.

Again, for people who aren’t sure, want to talk about something, have been seen, need a follow-up, or for those lower touch appointments that really we don’t need to traipse a coughing puppy through the hospital to infect every other dog. When they’re eating, they’re acting normally, they’re bouncing off the walls. They were at daycare in the last two weeks, and this is very likely kennel cough until proven otherwise.

I always give them all of their options. I tell that kennel cough puppy, if you really wanted to know, we would do a respiratory PCR and some chest X-rays, and that would be gold standard of care. But if you don’t want to do that, we can try X, Y and Z. And if they’re not better, they’re worse at any time, then they must be seen in clinic.

So it really, it’s complementary to in-clinic care, and people also sign a waiver before they come in stating that there are risks to telehealth. We can’t put our hands on an animals, but I’ll say after practicing for 11 years, experience and pattern recognition and a visual exam and the history can go a really, really long important way. So, I think, did that answer the question?

Yeah. And in your view, what types of cases are best suited for virtual care and which still deserve the clinic’s hands-on attention, and how do you determine that triage line?

Yeah. Well, I think we determine that from the history again and looking at the pet. And I think the best use cases for telehealth are typically, so we see a lot of behavior. We see a lot of, so for example, the other day I had a guy who had a cat that he could not get into the carrier, and he was a double transplant recipient, meaning that he was highly immunosuppressed and he could not get bit or scratched by the cat or it could be a death sentence for him.

And he really wanted to do the right thing and get his cat to the vet. And I said, “You are not going to get bit and scratched, and I’m going to help you get your cat to the vet.” He would’ve been completely out of luck if we were not able to give his cat pre-medications to get his cat into the clinic comfortably. That cat just would never have been seen.

So I think that’s just so critical. We get so many animals into the clinic that would not have otherwise been seen, or owners who just aren’t sure. And then we see a lot of, again, things like kennel cough, behavior. We see some derm, we see the lower acuity type of appointments, or we see a lot of second opinions. We have a lot of quality of life talks, a lot of getting puppy and kitten ready for life.

We have people who come in who don’t even have their pet yet, but want to know what they should do before they get their pet. And so it’s really… Car sickness. We’re going to see, it’s about to be July 4th, so we’re about to see a lot of noise aversion, and those are things that really don’t require an appointment. Nothing differently is really going to be done in clinic if they’ve had that physical exam within the last year, and we know that they’re otherwise healthy and normal. But just like everything, we take risks.

And again, owners are aware of that. And I would say the things that are not good use cases are the things that a lot of general practices would send to emergency anyway. So things like obviously severe trauma, active seizures, cats that can’t urinate, dogs that are down or can’t walk, lose the ability of their limbs, difficulty breathing. All of those things obviously are not good candidates for telehealth, and sometimes people just need to hear that.

I’m often surprised by, I always feel bad saying, “Hey, I can’t help you.” But I think people just actually want to hear, what do I actually need to go in? Do I need to do this?” And so I think when I say, “I think you really do need to go in, then they’re also thankful for that.”

What a great story of how you helped the man with his cat. I loved hearing that story. Well, Lisa, what technologies from video tools to patient monitoring systems have been most instrumental in enhancing trust and clarity in your virtual visits?

Yeah, I mean, I think that the visual exam component is so critical right now, but I look into the future and I think about all of the wearables, the things that we can track like weight, heart rate, temperature, all the vitals, respiratory rate, heart rate. I think I saw, I read about a video imaging system actually that allows you to view things in 3D and measure stuff like a dog has a bump or a mass.

And then I talk about the future of telehealth. I mean, I think we have an infinite capabilities. Maybe we could send somebody signs up for a telehealth service and we send you something that looks like a hockey puck that you could put up to your dog’s chest and [inaudible 00:11:08] and we can hear their heart rate and their rhythm, and we could send that to a cardiologist. Or we could use haptic technology where they have gloves and we can feel what they feel.

I mean, I think the potential is limitless if you really, really think outside the box. But I think in the nearest future, probably wearables are a very cool device that are tracking some really awesome stuff now. But I think even when you have an animal in clinic, the power of a physical exam and a history are, sorry, the power, I think even when you’re in a clinic, barring the physical exam, I think the power of a history and a visual exam are so much of what we do.

That makes so much sense. Well, beyond saving 80% of patients a clinic trip, what other KPIs or feedback do you track to measure the impact and quality of your program in telemedicine?

Well, we have NPS scores. So client satisfaction, and I can tell you, having from worked in emergency to general practice to now doing this is people are so incredibly thankful for the information that we’re able to provide them. And again, just feeling like they’re talked to and not rushed and cared about and that they have access to us no matter where they are at any time. So I think NPS scores are really very powerful, and to me, I think that’s really the most powerful one, the things that we track.

Cool. How do you approach educating pet owners through telehealth, especially when offering care instructions or lifestyle adjustments without hands-on demonstration?

I mean, I think if there’s something that we really think they need a hands-on demonstration for, I mean, we certainly can show them. We have videos and those can be pretty powerful. But if they do need hands-on demonstration, then we won’t hesitate to send them to the clinic or set them up with a nurse visit, etc.

But I would say that, I mean, anecdotally, over 90% of what we do really doesn’t require any demonstration, maybe eye ointment, but in the four years I’ve been doing this, I’ve never had somebody say, “I can’t do it,” or they’ve had to bring their animal in for that, that I am aware of. I mean, there are definitely always animals that are not going to tolerate eye drops no matter what you do, no matter well or how well versed you are in handling animals. But it just hasn’t really been a major, major issue. And so there are other ways around that too, to help them, again with calming medications, etc.

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Well, as director, how do you train and support veterinarians in developing strong communication skills, digital empathy and remote diagnostic acumen?

Oh, yeah. So I think we’re a small team, but I do think you’re right on that there is a whole world of digital empathy that we need to conquer. It’s one thing when you are there in person and you can see somebody’s full body language or be face-to-face. I think there’s something about being across the screen that makes somebody potentially even less human, and so I think it is really important to master the art of digital empathy.

So I think it’s more about finding the right talent, which I think you are probably no better than anybody else, Stacy, right, about finding the right fit for the job. So yeah, I’ve had a small curated team that’s actually been with me almost all four years that we’ve been running, and there’s been really no turnover. And it’s just a phenomenal group that really understands and is passionate about telehealth.

There are perks to telehealth, I think, for people who like working from home or don’t want to commute, etc. So I think that that’s great. But for me, when I look to hire somebody for the team, I want somebody who’s really passionate also about telehealth and what it can bring and what it does for people. And so I think that if you have that passion, you have mostly everything you need.

Looking ahead, what innovations like remote monitoring, AI diagnostics, or new service models do you foresee becoming central to Bond Vet’s virtual offerings?

I think we mentioned some of them, so you already said the remote monitoring, but also the video imaging that I had mentioned that we could see in 3D, the haptic technology. There’s companies like Mella, which I am sure you’re aware of too. They’re making digital scales and digital thermometers that people can use at home that connect to an app on your phone where you can track everything, you can send it to your vet.

The tracking callers also now, they make reports where you can send to your vet. You can track things like barking, scratching, how much your pet drinks. I mean, that’s all very, very cool. And I’ve used some of them myself, and I find them to be really pretty accurate. So there’s so much out there. I think that, and there’s so much out there that I think can be really helpful.

Well, Lisa, you co-founded the Senior Dog Veterinary Society. You sit on rescue boards, and you in the past have co-hosted a popular podcast, so you have a lot going on all while directing virtual medicine. How do you prioritize all of these roles and how do they influence each other?

Yeah, it’s a good question. I mean, my main job, my work for Bond is certainly my priority, but I think my passion [inaudible 00:18:15] tend to create businesses in my time, sort of my hobby. I think that, but they all serve both the veterinary community and the pet parent community. The Senior Dog Veterinary Society, we’re basically the fear-free of senior dogs.

So veterinarians can become senior dog certified, and they can probably display that to their clients. It really is a marker, a signal that says, “I care about older dogs. I’m going to take the time with you to spend,” because we know that these guys have typically multiple comorbidities. You have lots of questions about them. We really need to be doing the best for them in their old years. And so helping veterinarians also get educated on how to level up their care and expertise in senior dogs is so important. We don’t have a specialty in it yet. In human medicine, it’s an entire specialty. We don’t have that yet. So we’re really bridging the gap here. And we just love our oldies so much.

And then with the pet loss community, we know that this is a very disenfranchised grief where people are often told, “Oh, get over it,” or, “Just get another pet.” Or family members don’t understand. And I think even psychologists, they don’t necessarily have training in pet loss and grief.

And we have a team of people who are experts in these areas. They’ve devoted their life to it. They just absolutely love animals. Nobody understands better. And so we provide support groups and one-on-one support for people who have lost their pets, and it’s a very, very powerful, unique thing that I think doesn’t exist anywhere else.

How do people find that?

So pet loss community can just go to Petlosscommunity.com, and Senior Dog Veterinary Society, you can search Senior Dog Veterinary Society or go to Seniordogvets.com. They can certainly find me, @DrLisaLippman on Instagram or anywhere else, and I’m happy to direct them to it.

Well, Lisa, what has been the most surprising thing to you during your career up to this point in the veterinary profession?

I think you know better than anybody else, Stacy think I’ve done so many things. We’ve done so much together from my first job in emergency medicine to general practice and house call practice and telehealth. And I think every day the veterinary medicine is just expanding and growing and learning how to do better, how to be better.

The training programs that I see in place for veterinarians now, I so wish when I had graduated, I’m so jealous of everybody coming out now. I think that’s so cool. I hope that it continues to grow and it’s support and options for care. There’s so much you can do with it, and I think that that’s really, really cool.

How have you seen the profession change during the years you’ve been involved?

So much, I mean, so much. I mean, we’ve definitely seen a big expansion of private equity and venture capital, and we have seen vet schools pop up like crazy. I mean, I think when I was in vet school, there were 29, and now there are, I don’t know, there’ve been at least I think 10 since I’ve graduated pop up, which is just unbelievable.

And like I said, the training programs in place also that were not in place before. People advocating for themselves. The advent of social media, the ability to get messages out there both to pet parents and for veterinary communities to support each other and rally together, I think, yeah, it’s really changed a lot.

What does your crystal ball say about the future of the veterinary profession?

This is a really hard one. This is a really hard one, but I think I just hope that we continue to learn as a profession and grow and do better for every professional that comes after us in terms of training, support, specialization, I don’t know. I wonder, are we going the way of human medicine where specialization is more common, but also, again, the types of jobs that we can do, more hopefully expansion of telehealth. I think that would be wonderful. And I just think just hopefully more and better.

Well, what has been the biggest challenge that you’ve encountered up to this point in your career?

That’s a tough one. Let’s see. I think the biggest challenge is actually I found a niche. I think my first couple of years in work were really not what I expected totally. I think it can be a very tough career. People can be very, very tough. There can be a lot of paperwork I think I wasn’t necessarily prepared for in vet school, so really learning that it’s a service industry.

I didn’t really think of it that way, I think when I first graduated, so I think that’s been a little challenging. But I think that really, again, realizing that there’s so many things out there that you can do, and that if you don’t like something, you can change it. You don’t have to be stuck. And so I think that’s the key message.

Such a good point. If you don’t like what you’re doing, there’s plenty of other opportunities in the profession that you could explore.

Don’t stay in something if you’re miserable or even unhappy. It’s just life’s too short. And I have learned that better than anybody having two parents on ventilators. It’s just life’s too short.

Such a good point. I’m glad your parents are doing okay.

Thank you.

What are a few of your daily habits that you believe have allowed you to achieve success?

I think a lot of, I’m naturally sort of a connector. I love connecting people and working with people and talking to people. So I think putting myself out there and not being afraid to make friends and to have a lot of irons in the fire and always just keep on keeping on.

What advice would you give the younger version of yourself?

Nobody was going to change any sort of path that I was on. This is what I’ve always wanted to do since I can remember forever. I think just the advice is, well, I think that it’s all going to be okay. It’s all okay. It’s all always okay.

Well, what message or principle do you wish you could teach everyone?

I think that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. So I think that you’ve got to be prepared, but you also have to put yourselves in positions of having that opportunity. But if you are prepared and you meet that opportunity, then you can get lucky. And I think that’s what luck is.

And Lisa, I didn’t ask you, when did you first decide to become a veterinarian and why?

I mean, ever since I can remember. I mean, I didn’t grow up with pets, actually. My parents didn’t have pets, but my neighbors had Shih Tzu puppies that they bred, and they would put me in the playpen with their Shih Tzu puppies and feed me chocolate. And I was completely done for.

I mean, one day my mom said I ran away from home, and she showed up at their door, and I was there in the playpen with all the puppies eating with chocolate all over my face. And she was like, “An 18-month-old shows up all by herself at your door, and you don’t think to tell her mother where she is?” So I don’t know. I’ve just always, it’s what I’ve always wanted to do.

I love that. Well, Lisa, you’ve got the mic. What is one thing that you want to share with our listeners at the People of Animal Health podcast before you drop the mic today?

I think it’s just, if I’m proof of anything, it’s that I’ve had a lot of different lifetimes in this career already in 10 years. And so I think you can make of it what you want, and don’t be afraid to get out there, and there’s so many different options for you. And don’t stay in anything that doesn’t fulfill you.

Well, that’s such good advice, and I would agree with that. There are so many different job opportunities and career paths within the animal health industry and veterinary profession, and you’ve certainly had some interesting opportunities that you’ve been involved with, and I’m very happy to have been part of your journey along this way. Well, Lisa, thank you so much for being on the People of Animal Health podcast today.

Well, I appreciate you, Stacy, and everything you’ve done for me too in my career. I mean, really, when I got my start because of you. And so that’s really special and thanks for having me.

Thank you, Lisa.