Episode #55 – Candise Goodwin

Do you work in the animal health industry or veterinary profession? Have you ever wondered how people began their careers and how they got to where they are today?

Hi everyone. I’m Stacy Pursell, the founder and CEO of The VET Recruiter, the leading executive search and recruiting firm for the animal health industry and veterinary profession.

I was the first recruiter to specialize in the animal health industry and veterinary profession in the United States and built the first search firm to serve this unique niche. For the past 25 plus years, I have built relationships with the industry’s top leaders and trailblazers.

The People of Animal Health Podcast highlights the incredible individuals I have connected with throughout my career. You will be able to learn more about their lives, careers, and contributions. With our wide range of expert guest, you’ll be sure to learn something new in every episode. Thanks for tuning in and enjoy the episode.

Welcome to The People of Animal Health Podcast. Today’s guest on The People of Animal Health Podcast is Candise Goodwin, the founder and CEO of Outlier Advisors. With more than two decades of experience spanning pharmaceuticals, retail and pet health innovation, Candise is a seasoned growth consultant and strategic advisor in the pet industry.

She’s led initiatives at major companies like Petco and Petfolk, and now partners with veterinary groups, retailers, and pet tech companies to drive meaningful growth. Known for her sharp market insight and passion for helping businesses thrive, Candise brings a unique blend of strategy, experience, and heart to everything she does at Animal Health. Candise, welcome to The People of Animal Health Podcast, and thank you for being here today.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I’m looking forward to it.

Well, Candise, let’s start off at the beginning. What was your life like growing up and where did you grow up?

Yeah. So I actually grew up in a very unusual place. I grew up in Las Vegas and I grew up in Las Vegas in a time that it was a much smaller city than it is today, but my parents moved here when I was very young, before I started kindergarten.

So I spent the vast majority of my life in Las Vegas. Youngest of five kids, and very much a unique background growing up, again, in Las Vegas. Every time we would travel or go anywhere together, it would be, “Do you go to school in a casino?” Kind of these funny questions about Las Vegas, but it was a pretty unique place to grow up.

I would say that there’s a lot of nuance that you take for granted when you grow up in a city that’s open 24 hours. I didn’t learn that until I moved away much later in life and realize that grocery stores aren’t open 24 hours a day and gas stations aren’t always available to pump your gas. So definitely an interesting place to grow up.

It sounds like it. Well, Candise, how did first get into the animal health industry?

Like most things in life, I think a little bit of luck and just opportunity meeting, I suppose. So I actually started my career on the human side of the pharmaceutical industry. I have a degree in biology and thought I wanted to become a doctor and was in college at a time when socialized medicine was the big talk of the day and volunteering in a hospital. And all of the doctors I met at the time were pretty miserable with their career choices.

I wanted to be a neonatologist. So volunteering in the NICU, I think you got a unique view of what the life was like. And so when I graduated my degree in biology, I got my first job actually in the human diagnostics market and set up in-office laboratories for physicians and student health centers back before everything was centralized like it is now with diagnostics.

And from there went on to pharmaceutical sales before pharma guidelines came into effect. So worked for a bunch of companies that went on to become Sanofi-Aventis for about seven years and left… Actually, just take a few years off and stay home and homeschool my kids because I’m literally crazy.

And the economy crashed in 2008 and my husband was an excuse to construction, and so I needed to go back and think about coming back to work. And at that time, I was lucky enough to find animal health that I didn’t know existed, even though my years of being with Sanofi-Aventis, I’d never heard of Marielle and was lucky enough to get a position with Intervet/Schering-Plough, and a lot of the lessons I’d learned on the pharmaceutical side and the managed care side had a lot of applicability over on the animal health side as well.

Well, you had an incredible journey through the pet industry, from pharmaceuticals to leading strategy at major retailers and now founding Outlier Advisors. What inspired you to take the leap into entrepreneurship and start your own consultancy?

Oh, gosh. I think it goes back to that same theme–some luck and opportunity meeting. So I was lucky enough to be at some really innovative companies and most of my career was around growth.

Brought into an organization to lead growth, to figure out how to take on a strategic problem and build something to support that. And when I decided to open Outlier Advisors, I think I had seen all sides of the industry and it gave me a really unique perspective. But truthfully, when I look back three years ago, I think when I founded Outlier Advisors, I just thought, “I want to take a minute and see how my experience can benefit a variety of other stakeholders out in the market.”

And so during that experience, I think everyone thinks when you open your own consultancy that you’re just going to do it briefly while you go find your next thing, which might’ve been in the back of my head.

But from day one, I set up Outlier Advisors to be scalable in the way that I didn’t put it under my own name, as an example. I picked a name that I believed in and started building a lot of scalable processes that I had done for other organizations within my company as well.

So I guess although I might not have planted the flag for myself, I think I knew at that time that there was a lot of learnings I had on other people’s dimes that I could bring out to much smaller players and really help them be exposed to different concepts they wouldn’t have an opportunity to at a less mature stage of company.

Well, the pet industry has seen massive shifts in recent years, especially with technology, e-commerce, and pet health trends. What are some of the biggest changes that you’ve observed in how should businesses adapt?

Ooh, that’s a deep one. It’s fascinating to think back when I started in animal health in 2010. We were a very small industry and it was a very different industry. There’s a lot of different companies out there and a lot of different products.

And I think watching the growth of the industry itself has changed a lot of things and people don’t necessarily see or understand those changes. And by that I mean we now have billion dollar brands when it used to be… A hundred million dollars was considered a blockbuster.

And so I think there’s been fundamental changes in the business across the board, everything obviously from we look at the rise of corporate consolidation, et cetera, and these billion dollar brands. So I think the biggest challenges I think is the growing pains. And again, having grown up in somewhere like Las Vegas, it seems was always trying to play catch up with building new freeways and new housings as people wanted to come in.

Animal health has been similarly challenged, right? People want to come into animal health, which is a great place to be, but I think that there’s growing pains when that happens at an accelerated rate that the infrastructure has not really been built in a way that people can take advantage like they can in other industries.

Well, at Outlier Advisors, you work with a wide range of clients, from veterinary groups to pet tech startups. What’s a common challenge you see across the board and how do you typically help companies navigate it?

Yeah. So I think the most common challenge I see is that a lot of folks aren’t benchmarking what good looks like. And so what I see, one of two things happen a lot of times either.

Companies have… look internally for what good looks like and they aren’t benchmarking themselves against what’s actually happening in the marketplace. So I think that’s the number one thing I continue to see. Large companies particularly I think just don’t have this bringing the outside in view of the world. And so they’re making a lot of decisions based on old playbooks that don’t necessarily work in today’s environment, quite frankly.

And then on the smaller company side, I know you asked for one, but I’m going to give you two, I think there’s this lack of understanding of how to communicate the value of your solution to audience. And by that I mean they talk a lot about the technical specifications and about what they love about their own product, but they’re not good at fitting those qualities into what the audience needs. So if you’re talking to a corporate consolidator, how and what you would talk about, they don’t quite understand that translation, I think, at the simplest form.

Well, you’ve led initiatives that giants like Petco and helped shape omni-channel strategies. How has consumer behavior and pet retail evolved and what’s next in the omni-channel experience?

Yeah, I think it’s been fun. I think at the end of the day, what I think about consumer behavior, it’s consumer behavior. And I think we’re consumers across every decision we make. And I think sometimes we get a little siloed to think that the consumer’s going to behave one way for their pet when they’re picking a dog food versus a different way when they’re picking whether they want to take advantage of that vaccine or flea and tick product.

And I think one of the big changes is the rise of the empowered consumer. Even 10 years ago, consumers didn’t have the choice or information they have now around the options for their pet’s health. And so we see the demographic shifting materially to the younger generation, millennials and Gen Zs.

But at the end of the day, I think consumers want what’s best for their pet, and they don’t necessarily define channels the way we do. I think the notion of front of house and back of house in channel is dead, quite frankly. Meaning I think pet owners are making decisions and they have a lot of information to do so, and they’re doing that with or without the veterinarian in a lot of circumstances because it’s been challenging, I think, for them to be able to understand how to access and have the veterinarian as part of their team in a lot of ways.

Well, you’ve been a part of both corporate giants and fast-paced startups. How does strategic planning differ between those environments and what lessons have you carried with you from each?

Yeah. I mean, I love strategy. It’s funny, I think you’re either born with the need to understand the 10,000-foot view, how all the pieces are laid out on the table or you don’t. And so for me, I think it’s fundamental to running a successful business today, is making sure that strategy stays at the forefront of what you’re doing. And that strategy is based on current economic realities and consumer trends.

And so at large companies, the great thing is they have a pretty structured process, which is great, an AOP, annual operating plan meetings. You have joint business planning with your vendors for the year. So because you have all these processes in place, it kind of forces the strategy conversations to happen. And then also decisions to come because you have deadlines associated with those, right?

I have to sign contracts for next year with my best brands, and to be a best brand, you have to invest this and you get that. So I think that makes it a lot, but it also makes it a lot harder because dealing with lots of zeros on those agreements and making sure that everyone’s holding up their fair end of the deal.

And then I think on the small side, I think the challenge is there are no deadlines. So that which can be done anytime gets done, no time usually. And so I think a lot of people when they start a business, they have a strategy clearly or they won’t go into business. But I think as you’re trying to just put out the fires, you lose the opportunity to really step back and say, “Did the strategy work? Is it still relevant for today? Is there something I would do materially different if I took a look around me and saw what the market was doing?”

And honestly, I think that’s the biggest opportunity for everybody today, is to go back and look at their strategy, dust it off, pull it out, pressure test it, and if you don’t have it formalized, get it formalized so you can then measure and iterate.

And again, that’s the work we love doing, is really helping people evaluate the strategy they have in place and make changes as need be based on the competition in the market. Because I do think the speed of business has changed materially. I keep telling people, “If you haven’t been in a vet clinic in the last four months, you haven’t been in a vet clinic.”

And so if you’re building solutions for clinics and you’re not spending time out there and seeing what’s happening with consumers and veterinarians, then you’re probably going to build the wrong thing, quite frankly.

Such good points. Now there’s a growing focus on personalized pet care, from nutrition to vet services. How do you see innovation continuing to disrupt the traditional vet and pharmacy model?

So I think personalized pet care is kind of table stakes now, and I think that’s part of the challenge, I think, for an industry that doesn’t have an infrastructure laid like I referenced earlier.

Personalization only works if you have data and you have structured, organized data to be able to use that data to create that experience. And so when you look at things like the pharmacy model for retailers specifically…

That’s always been interesting for a retailer because when I order a prescription diet or I order a medication, guess what? I give you all of my pet’s health information, which means now I can personalize that experience.

And so I think the challenge from a veterinary side, again, we don’t have the core infrastructure in place from the data standpoint to make it easy for a veterinarian to be able to actually do personalized experiences for pet parents.

It used to be if you had your pet’s photo on an email or a name, that was personalized. Well, that’s not personalized anymore. That’s not even table stakes, that’s so far down the list. It’s so expected.

So to do true personalization, it means that I need to understand not just you, where you live, what you care about, what’s important to you, how do you spend your time with your pet, but also again, what do you feed your pet, how do you think about diagnostic testing for your own personal health. All of these things come into play.

So I think the challenge, again, for veterinarians specifically is they’ve not had to think about the customer in general and the consumer. The other end of the leash is one of my favorite things to talk about because at the end of the day, pets…

Most veterinarians get into the business because they love pets and they just want to make the world better for pets. But without people along on that process and building the communication channels and the ability for that pet parent to take advantage of your recommendations in a way they understand, no one can do their jobs.

So at the end of the day, I think it’s specifically about the pharmacy model. I think the pharmacy model goes back to the billion dollar brands we talked about earlier. There’s… I think three of the top five brands now are close to a billion dollars and they’re in the flay and tech space. And so I was on the global launch team for Bravecto back in the day.

I don’t think people realized the shift that had happened from the old spot-ons to this new billion dollar product category. And so as you think about that, again, you think about consumers want the products where and how they want to buy them. And so I do think there’s been material changes to the pharmacy model for the veterinarian and consumer as well.

I’m optimistic that there’s still plenty of opportunity to make it a better experience for everybody. And I think there’s a lot of work to be done, quite frankly, collaboratively on doing that going forward, which I’m excited there’s some folks in the space who are making some moves there. But I think generally we’ve got to come together to do the right thing for pets, which is to make it as easy and seamless as possible for pet parents to get the care they need where and how they want it.

Yeah, that makes sense. It does sound like there’s opportunity there. Now, Candise, Outlier Advisor seems to represent more than just a consultancy. It’s a mindset. What does being an outlier mean to you and how do you instill that ethos in your clients and collaborators?

Yeah, I started earlier saying I did intentionally think about what type of consultancy I wanted to open and what it should be named. And so, again, I think that goes back to this notion of intentionality and I think intentionality of your purpose and then questioning what good looks like and then not being afraid to chart a new course.

So for me, that’s what outliers really means. It means we going to take a minute and we’re going to pause and we’re going to evaluate and think long and hard about what work needs to be done and then go get that work done in the best possible way.

And that way probably doesn’t rely on an old playbook. And so I do find that most of my clients are people who understand that there’s got to be a different way to do things, that the legacy way is not the way forward, and that they want help to figure out what that next best approach is.

So I love it. I mean, I think that we use a framework called Playing to Win as our strategy model. And it’s, at its core, very basic. It really kind of follows a sports analogy. It’s an old Procter & Gamble approach, but strategy can get really complicated for a lot of folks.

But at its core, it’s about making decisions and choices, and you need to have a structured process of how you do that, but you have to be open to it. And that goes back to your point ,it is a mindset. We are not for everybody.

A lot of people just want someone to come in and make their operation 10% better, and that’s not what we do. We really help people build what’s next to meet their goals. So yeah, I appreciate that question a lot. It is very intentional.

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Where you have deep expertise in data analysis, forecasting, and business operations, how do you use data to uncover new growth opportunities in such a relationship-driven industry?

Yeah, it’s such a good question and I appreciate all your questions. They’re really well-thought-out. Thank you. I am one of those people that I love data and I feel like I need enough data to directionally test a thesis and then go.

Which I think the challenges with data that I see regularly are this fact that either the data’s locked up in a way that you don’t have access to or people aren’t asking the question first and using the data to get to the bottom of the solution they need to put in place. So I think from my viewpoint, that’s really how I use it.

I start with business questions so very clearly, “Where are we winning today? Where are we losing today?” And you just drill down from there. If we’re winning today, “Well, how are we winning? Against who?” And so to me, I always start with a question and then the data will support the decision of where to move forward.

I think a lot of times people pick KPIs and they haven’t really thought out, is that a leading indicator or a lagging indicator? What’s contributing to the change here positively or negatively?

So I think setting KPIs is super important, but the more important thing is what are the business questions that you have to ask all the time about your business so you can continue to grow at the end of the day? A.

Nd I think the relationship-driven portion, I do think this market is changing in a pretty material way, and you and I have had good conversations about this. Stacy, I think our little industry has grown up. I just think our little industry has grown up. And so relationships matter and they’re super important, and relationships earn you a seat at the table and trust. And many of my clients are long-time industry connections that I’ve grown close with over the years.

But what that does for me is it gets you a seat at the table, but really it is back to the process and the business value you can unlock and drive. And data, at the end of the day, it’s not just data you have within your four walls.

I just did a talk called Drowning in Data out for The Pet Summit, and it really was this notion of, how do you look outside your organization and get data from other sources? And so I’m a little bit of a data hoarder, I like to say, and just every report that comes out, every investor summit I listen to, I take notes and I think long and hard about what the metrics mean.

And so looking outside your four walls of what’s happening is not easy in this industry. There’s paid data sources and there’s great paid data sources, there’s great free sources, but most people don’t even know or understand how to access that.

So that’s a big service I provide to my clients, is helping them get together the data points they need to pressure test the thesis so that they can then go do the work to get the impacts they want. So you can’t really unpack those without kind of putting all of them together, I guess, for that conversation.

That’s good. Data’s important. What advice would you give to someone looking to launch a new product or service in the pet space today, and what key factors should they be thinking about from day one?

Again, I think that my rallying cry is go solve one real problem for one real person, and you’ll rule the world, quite frankly. I think the important thing is to be in love with the problem you’re trying to solve and understand it from the depths of your toes up all the way through the top of your head.

And by that I mean, again, people that are building solutions that haven’t spent time in that world, it’s really challenging or thinking you’re going to take something from another market and just drop it over here on Animal Health, I don’t think people understand or have any idea how complex this market is.

And I continue to see examples of people that think, “Well, of course, this is how it works. It works on that side of the house, and I’m just going to plop it over here.” So I yet to see that be successful.

So I think that A, know the market ridiculously well and… Meaning spend time in clinics, talk to people, talk to consumers, look at the data, but then also make sure the problem is a real problem. It’s one problem, right?

We see a lot of people that have, “Well, I can come in and solve your 25 problems.” Well, guess what? If you don’t solve my one problem, you’re not going to get the chance to solve the other 24. And so I think that it sometimes seems like a very boring process to slow down and pick the one problem you’re going to solve and make sure that you get it right. That would be, I think, the best advice I would give.

And also think about scaling from day one, right? Again, as you think about how could I do this at scale? So it’s not about building product. I think a lot of people lean into going and building technology.

I’m a big believer of it’s the paper, paper process, PDF, people, and then product, meaning the digital product. Don’t build product until you’ve perfected all those other pieces, because technology doesn’t solve the problem. It helps the problem move faster, but if you haven’t defined all those other key steps ahead of time, then you’re going to build the wrong solution and spend a lot of money doing so.

Well, Candise, you’ve been a sought after speaker and advisor across the industry. What is one trend or insight you think more leaders need to pay attention to but often overlook?

This was a deep question. I had to think about this one, because there’re so many. I think the one I’m going to bring up today is I think there’s something called the say-do gap, and the say-do gap is something that Nielsen coined, and it’s a measurable difference between what people will tell you they’re going to do and the actions they’ll actually take. And what’s fascinating about that is you can measure over time and it stays pretty constant.

But one of the things I’ve really been concerned with for a long time is we talk a lot about what pet parents will do, and there’s a lot of surveys out there about they’ll spend anything and people are going to do all these things. Of course, they’re going to take the best care of their pet. And that’s all lovely. And I think what people say is important, but what people do is much more important.

And so what I find happening today is that we, in some ways, I think are talking to ourselves and making us all feel okay that the world’s going to be fine. But I think there’s real data out there around what the consumer’s doing today, and that’s where I like to make sure that people have access to Nielsen, and Nielsen and others who are doing first party data.

Again, when I’ve been at some of these big companies like Petco and PetIQ, we had access to these really great resources to see what was actually taking place, what are people buying, where are they buying it? Where are they moving away from?

And so when you look at that, you see very clearly… Okay. If we see a rise in private label, which we do see. If we see people trading down, if we see people extending purchases, these are signs that matter for the animal health industry in a very meaningful way because, again, it’s one consumer. They’re not going to continue to trade down in all areas except for one.

And I think we’re seeing that in a very meaningful way when we look at visit trends right now in new clients. So I think the say-do gap is super important and people actually go and find what people are doing, not just what people are saying, because again, I think one without the other is pretty meaningless.

Good point. Well, Candise, what has been the most surprising thing to you during your career in the animal health industry or veterinary profession up to this point?

Rising thing. Most surprising thing: I’ll say at this point the most surprising thing to me as I reflect back on where we are is the fact that we have still not laid the foundation for data standards and data transparency. And so it’s surprising to see such a large industry that just doesn’t have that base infrastructure, and we just can’t figure out how to work together to make it happen.

And so I spent about a year and a half on the AVI, the communications board for the interoperability standards, and it’s very frustrating to me without kind of laying that foundation that we can never get where we want to go, and we’re spending a lot of time and money on things we shouldn’t be, quite frankly.

So I think it’s surprising to me to think about such a mature industry financially when we look at the size of this industry that we still don’t have the base infrastructure of data standards and data interoperability. And yeah, it’s surprising and disappointing quite frankly, at the same time.

What does your crystal ball say about the future of the pet industry?

I think what I know for sure is that people love their pets and they’re going to continue to look for solutions to take great care of their pet. I think what will look different is the way they get those services, whether it’s the veterinarian side or grooming or training.

I think we’re going to continue to see new service delivery models for all of those things. I think that we’re going to continue to see new products and solutions come to life to take better care of our pets, everything from better nutrition, better mental health, and things like the ability for pets to travel with us.

So I think this notion of community and shared space that we see the younger generations wanting I think are going to really redefine how we think about our pets. I think we’re kind of post-pet parent.

I will say when I look at the way that people are engaging with their pets today, it’s much more pet life partner. And so I think that we’re going to see a really different view of the role pets play in our lives, how they show up in society, and again, how we take care of them pretty meaningfully different over the next five years, I would say.

I just had a veterinarian on the podcast recently and he was saying the same things, talking about the pet life partner aspect. I want to turn the conversation over to your career. All successful people have daily habits that help them to achieve success. Candise, what are a few of your daily habits that you believe have helped you to achieve success up to this point?

I would say I always prioritize having deep conversations with people and helping and understanding what’s happening in their world. And so I make a point to connect and have lots and lots of meaningful conversations no matter how busy I am.

Sometimes people on my team go, “You don’t have time for that call.” And the answer is, “Yes, I do, because that’s really what I think allows me to be successful and really helpful in this industry.”

So it is on a daily basis, I’m connecting with somebody that is not directly related to my business, and I have nothing to gain from that conversation except to learn and understand and maybe contribute to their success.

So I do pride myself really on having tons and tons of meaningful conversations with everything from someone with a startup idea to people that work at major international companies that are considering a sticky business problem. And so, yeah, for me it’s really about those connections and being part of the conversation and making time to do that even when it doesn’t make sense on paper.

And what has been the biggest adversity or challenge that you’ve had to fight through during your career?

Oh, gosh. That’s a good one. It’s hard to pick just one, right? I mean, I don’t think anyone, as you’re building things, has an easy go of it. I think when I look back again during my career, I think probably the biggest challenges turned out to be the biggest opportunities.

But when I left Merck Animal Health in 2015, and when I left Merck, I worked on the human side with very large companies. Then I went to Intervet/Schering-Plough. We became Merck. And we certainly weren’t large by company standards, but we… I don’t know how many hundreds of people at that point.

But then when I went to Vets First Choice, so I went to work for Vets First Choice in 2015, and that was a true startup. There was probably 30 people around the table. And so it was a pretty painful time of my career. I think I expected things to work in a certain way and they didn’t.

But what I realized pretty quickly after some time there was the beauty of it was the opportunity to create new processes, new technology, new communication routes. But it was pretty painful when you kind of think you’re good at something and then you realize, “Oh, I had some processes behind me that helped me be good at that.”

So having to go back and redefine processes and then also bring people on that journey as you build teams as well. But I think, again, it’s served me ridiculously well to know that there’s always a different way of doing things and that it’s never comfortable when you’re figuring out what’s the next best thing, I would say.

Candise, what advice would you give the younger version of yourself?

Oh, gosh. It would: be don’t worry so much. Don’t think everything has to be perfect and don’t think there’s an order of how things are going to go in your life. I think it would be just maybe: relax and enjoy the ride and know that you are going to be fine.

I think that’s what everybody probably… We all need that every day, quite frankly, to remind ourselves because it is turbulent times, and I think surround yourself with good people and do the right thing and we’ll all be okay.

Yeah, good point. Relax. Don’t stress so much. Don’t worry. What message or principle do you wish you could teach everyone on this who’s listening in our podcast today?

Oh, gosh. I guess, it would probably be: question everything. I think questioning everything is super critical to getting the life you want, right? So again, Stacy, you and I have talked a lot about being moms or raising our kids and different things we’ve done over the years.

I think having the ability to question why you’re doing something and does this serve you today and what could you be doing instead is just absolutely important. That could be from how you’re practicing medicine to what hours you’re open to what type of client you’re taking on, or we’re going on vacation.

I just think we get one life. That’s it. This is all we have. So if you don’t question regularly, is this serving you or not, then I think we all run out of time. So that would be my challenge, I think, is it could be as simple as, why do I have coffee every day and not tea, right? Have I tried tea? I mean, so it could be very simple, but it also can be very profound.

That’s good advice. Well, some of our guests say that they’ve had a key book that really helped them along their way, and how sometimes helped them to change their mindset or their approach to success. Do you have a key book in your life that has impacted you the most?

So I’m a little bit of a book nerd. I have my top probably five books that I recommend almost daily, but it’s hard to pick your favorite. But for today, I’ll say, I think from an easy read and a conceptual standpoint, there’s a book called Upstream by Dan Heath that I absolutely adore, and it’s fundamental, I think, to how I approach all of my business and life. And it really is…

The principle is based on a public health parable, and it’s this notion of… I’ll tell the little story behind it. There’s folks outside on a lovely day based of a waterfall. They’re having a picnic and they’re enjoying the sun and they’re on a work retreat. Their first time out together in a long time, and all of a sudden they hear a big splash and they look over and in the bottom of the pool of the waterfall, there’s a child who’s been thrown over the waterfall.

And so they all jump up in surprise and they jump in the water and they start pulling the child out, and then another child comes and another child, and they’re exhausted. And it’s like getting to this point where, “Oh my gosh, I don’t think I could actually continue.” And somebody jumps out of the pool and runs up the hill to towards the top of the waterfall, and everyone in the pool says, “Hey, wait, where are you going? All these kids are going to die if we don’t keep saving.” And they say, “No, listen, we’re all going to die if we don’t go up and figure out what’s throwing these kids off the waterfall.”

And so it really is this notion of figuring out what’s causing those downstream impacts in whatever situation you have. And so I think it does a really good job of explaining that concept. And once you see it, you can’t unsee it, and you have to then really rethink how you approach different situations you come across in your daily life and business.

Yeah, that’s good. Well, Candise, you’ve got the mic. What is one thing that you want to share with our listeners of The People of Animal Health Podcast before you drop the mic today?

I think just thank you for all you do. I mean, I think at the end of the day, I think that we are surrounded by some of the most passionate, well-respected, thoughtful, kind people. And I wouldn’t trade this industry for anything. So I just want to say thank you.

I’ve been lucky enough to work with you and for you, and you guys take great care of my fur babies, right? At the end of the day, I just cannot say enough about how thankful I’m to be part of this industry and each.

And every one of you, thank you for what you contribute because we need everything you do on a daily basis, and we’re very lucky to have you guys out there taking great care and thinking about our pets so we can love them for longer. So that’s the big thank you.

Well, Candise, thank you for being on The People of Animal Health Podcast today. I enjoyed our conversation.

Thank you. Me too, Stacy, so much. Talk to you soon.