Episode #24 – Dr. Doug Carithers

Welcome to the People of Animal Health Podcast. The host of our podcast is Stacy Pursell. Stacy is the Leading Executive Recruiter for the animal health industry, and a veterinary profession. She’s the founder of Therio Partners, and The VET Recruiter. Stacy has placed more professionals in key positions within the animal health industry, and the veterinary profession than, any executive search professional. Along the way, Stacy has built relationships with some outstanding people who are doing incredible things to make a difference.

The People of Animal Health Podcast features industry leaders, and trailblazers who have made a significant impact, or are making an impact in the animal industry, or the veterinary profession. Stacy chats with them to learn more about their lives, their careers, and the unique and interesting things that they have done to contribute to the animal health industry, or veterinary profession. She’s here to share their stories with you. Now here’s the host of our podcast, Stacy Pursell.

Welcome to The People of Animal Health Podcast. On today’s show, we are talking with Dr. Doug Carithers. Doug Carithers is a veterinarian, and Director of Applied Research and Publications at Boehringer Ingelheim. Doug has authored or co-authored more than 40 scientific papers. He edited chapters in the 9th and 10th Merck Veterinary Manual, and the Merck Pet Manual, and co-authored a parasitology atlas. Doug has lectured nationally and internationally at veterinary, and parasitology meetings, and conferences, and participated in national and international roundtable discussions on parasitology, pain, and gastric ulcers.

At Boehringer Ingelheim, for more than 29 years, Doug has performed post-approval studies and has developed, conducted, and been directly involved in more than 125 clinical and field studies. Including large-scale field trials involving nearly 20,000 companion animals. He is a graduate of the Iowa State University College of Veterinary Medicine, and has served as a past president of the American Association of Veterinary Parasitologists, and Vice President of the American Heartworm Society. Welcome onto The People of Animal Health Podcast. And how are you, Doug?

Thanks for having me, Stacy. I’m doing well. Hearing that introduction, it makes me feel like I’m really old. But in my head, in my heart, I feel I’m still just out of vet school.

Well, Doug, you’re only the age that you feel, right?

There you go.

Doug, first of all, we’re so excited to have you on our podcast today, so thank you so much for being here. And Doug, I know that you’ve had tremendous success throughout your career, but I’d like to start off at the very bottom, in the very beginning of your career. What was your life like growing up, and where did you grow up?

I was actually raised for the most part in Iowa, and we lived on a farm north of Ames, Iowa. My parents were both on the faculty of the veterinary school at Iowa State University, and my brothers and I did the chores on the farm, and then we basically came to love animals during that time. And that’s always the hook, it seems to be, that gets people interested in veterinary medicine, is love for animals.

But in my case, actually when my mother was in graduate school at the University of Missouri, I’m not going to say the years, but back at that time. She was in the zoology department, in the anatomy department at the medical school there, and I saw a specimen jar in the hallway, and it had the foot of an 11-year-old boy in that jar, and the foot was giant. And I asked my mother what caused that, and that was a foot of a boy who was infected with Brugia malayi, which is a filarial worm that causes elephantiasis.

That had a big impact on me as a seven-year-old child that, “Wow, that is amazing. What parasites can start and cause in people.” And that got me interested in parasitology. So, I’ve been a parasitology geek since I was about seven years old. And then, as I grew up and saw all these animals, and was raised in an environment where animal discussions happened all day long, and at night too, when mom and dad got home from work. It was a logical next step to go ahead, and study it, because I always found the science fascinating.

Wow, that is an incredible story. And I can see how seeing that foot in the jar would generate interest. And what an interesting beginning, so that’s how you first figured out what you wanted to do professionally. So, tell us about the beginning of your veterinary career. After vet school, how did you get started out in veterinary medicine?

It’s interesting, because my story illustrates something I’m sure that a lot of veterinary students are going through, or people that are interested in veterinary medicine. When I started out in veterinary school, my dad, by that time, was in the clinics, and he was teaching small animal medicine. So I was dead certain I was going to be a small animal veterinarian when I was in my undergrad studies, and then as I went through vet school.

When I hit my last year of veterinary school, which in fact was a full year, because we start the day after you finish your third year finals, the day after you start your senior year. So my father basically insisted that I go work in a mixed animal practice too, so that I could have a broader experience as a veterinarian. And he ended up arranging an opportunity for me to go work in a classmate of his, his practice down in Lamoni, Iowa, right on the border of Missouri.

And it turned out that while I was there working with this veterinarian, he had to scoot out real quick, and go to the Bovine Practitioners meeting. Where he got the Bovine Practitioner of the Year for the United States. So, I had a mentor there that was very impactful on me. And here, in my fourth year of veterinary school, in December of the year, I switched from planning on going into companion animal and went into mixed animal practice, and I ended up getting a job in mixed animal practice. And I’m really glad I did, because it gave me a lot of perspectives on herd medicine, and herd health, that I never would’ve had in companion animal medicine. But the fascinating thing about it, it’s that those learnings from herd health really helped me to be a better companion animal practitioner too.

So then, at some point, you transitioned from practice to working in the animal health industry. Tell us about that transition. How did you go from practice to industry?

Basically, what happened to me was that I enjoyed practice, and I enjoyed the variety that practice offered. When I was in mixed animal practice, I was in with a father, son, and me, both of them really loved the large animal component. And I actually liked surgery quite a bit. So essentially, what would end up happening is I did most all the large animal surgery. I did all of the small animal surgery, and then I’d go out, and work cattle and take my sheer of the calls too. And so it gave me a real broad base.

I developed a real comfort level, and the thing that bothered me is that I was doing it one at a time, and I was impacting just one animal at a time. And I started doing some soul-searching, trying to figure out how it can impact the health of more animals at one time. And I got to know, and saw, these veterinarians that worked for the pharmaceutical companies running around, and lecturing to other veterinary colleagues, and educating them. I said, “Boy, that looks like that would just be fun to have the opportunity to have a positive impact on so many animals.” Because all these veterinarians out there see thousands and thousands of animals a year. And so that was the stimulus, because the opportunity to educate was the key for me.

What was that transition like for you? Tell us about the early days in industry, and your new practice, you had been doing that for some years. What was that transition initially like for you to make that move?

Anytime you’re dealing with change, it can be difficult. Going from owning a practice or being a practice partner owner, and then going to work for somebody, it can always be a challenge. There’s different standards, different morals of those entities, and that takes a little bit of adjusting. But basically, all in all, we’re dealing with good people within the company, and great people outside the company, and all the veterinarians you visit with, and the staffs at the veterinarian clinics, et cetera. And even though it was a little bit challenging, it was very, very rewarding to make that transition, and to get to meet and become friends with all those people.

So, what were you doing initially when you got into industry? And tell us about the work that you did initially, and then just how your career has progressed in industry. Just talk about some of the different roles that you’ve had.

Sure. Basically, when I started, moved me from Iowa to North Carolina, and I had responsibility for the mid-Atlantic United States. Meaning that I covered from, basically, New Jersey down to South Carolina, and then over to the Mississippi River, so it was a rather large geography. And I also had to lecture on cattle, horses, and pigs, dogs, and cats. And so it wasn’t very specialized at that point because, at that point, basically, the products that we had were ivermectin-based. So there was opportunities in all of those realms. And then, we had several other drugs and vaccines and stuff too, that came along. But I always looked at learning about the new things as an opportunity, and an opportunity to go ahead and educate more.

But the reason why I was able to get the job, in the first place, it’s because I had this broad base of experience. And in fact, when I first started with the company, I actually started doing studies with pigs, and with horses, and looking at [inaudible 00:12:25] stones, and horses. And looking at parasite control, herd main’s life elimination programs, controlling gastrointestinal parasites of swine, which seems silly now, all these years later. Because we really don’t have any parasite issues in swine because they have been managed out with sanitation for the most part. So, it’s been a fascinating ride, and it was truly an opportunity to get all sorts of experience right up front. And it helps me to this day, as I mentioned, because of the concept of understanding, looking at things from a herd health standpoint.

Was there a point when you felt you were truly beginning to gain some traction with your career?

Yeah. When I started doing studies, and in addition to just going around and lecturing for cattle producers, and for veterinary groups, and for clinics, and to staff. That’s always rewarding, that’s always fun, that’s definitely a career highlight. And to have those opportunities to do that along with the studies, that made me feel like, “Wow, this is actually fun, and it’s where I want to go, and where I want to be.” So, that was definitely one of the big successes.

Well, I know that some successful people have had some massive success, and then there’s some low points. Walk us through the highest high, and the lowest low of your career.

That’s a loaded question there, Stacy. But I don’t know, I have a highest high about every other week or so. And that’s the fun thing about it, because basically the more you challenge yourself, the more opportunity you have to go ahead and surprise yourself. And whenever I surprise myself, it’s a fun time. As you mentioned on the introduction, well, actually I didn’t cover this in the intro. But I was also the secretary treasurer for the American Association of Veterinary Parasitologist. And then I was elected vice president, and that goes through a process of vice president, president-elect, president, and then immediate past president.

So for eight years I was in the administrative board of the American Association of Parasitologists. And that was definitely a high point in my career, but it was something that basically I’d been working for since I was seven years old. With my passion, and my love, for understanding the challenges, the parasites, et cetera, bring on veterinary medicine.

As far as some of the low points, there’s always stress associated with every job. And anybody that says that there isn’t, they’re crazy. But most of the time when you have low points, it’s when you have a massive amount of change, and you have to adjust for that. And sometimes your adjustment may seem counterintuitive, and that’s when it really weighs on you, when you cannot for the life of you figure out, why things are happening the way they are. But that will happen from time to time. The best thing you can do is go ahead, and push right through it, and not dwell on it, and go ahead, and make the best of the opportunities that are afforded to you.

Yeah, that’s some good advice to make the best of the opportunities, because we’re always going to encounter change. And I also like what you said, Doug, about the more challenges you have, the more opportunity that you have. So, I would encourage our listeners to take advantage of those challenges, there’s always opportunities and challenges in change. Doug, what has been the most surprising thing to you during your career in the animal health industry?

Probably the most surprising thing has been, in large part, throughout my career, I’ve had the opportunity to basically write my own job description. And that’s because it goes back to what we were just talking about, it’s because I challenged myself. And when I challenged myself, and I went ahead and extended a little bit further than I had previously, people noticed that, and it had a positive impact on me, and it had a positive impact on my career. That’s the advice I give is to everybody, it’s to never be complacent, go ahead and try to improve, try to succeed.

Just the other day, I was in a little conference call with three colleagues from Australia. And I pointed out to him, I said, “I go to all of these parasitology lectures, and listen to all these world renowned parasitologists that I know. And as I listen to the lectures, an hour-long lecture, if I come out knowing one thing that I didn’t know before, I consider it a raging success.” So I think that we have to have a positive attitude about what we’re doing. And I know there’s a lot of things I’ve heard before in there, but if I get one new thing, that’s a win.

Yeah, always be learning. There’s always something that you can learn from every lecture, because every person has something new to share. Well, Doug, how have you seen the industry change over the years?

Probably, one of the bigger changes I’ve seen in the industry, and it’s not something I’m really thrilled about at this point. In the long term, it might end up being more valuable than I realize, at least yet. But there’s a lot of stuff going on in genomics, and everybody is all excited about the DNA and RNA, and I totally understand that. But some people get so caught up in the minute details of the genomics that they’re not looking at the impact on the population, or considering the variability of the genomics within the population.

So, that is probably the one thing I point out it’s, don’t get so concerned about what’s the genomic makeup of this individual. In the case of my interest, parasites, you got to look at how we affect the parasite population to select for those genomics. That’s the big thing, that’s where I was talking about earlier, I was talking about herd health. That concept of looking at the big picture, stepping back, and looking from 5,000 feet up or 10,000 feet up and seeing what’s going on as a trend. Rather than dwelling on this one individual that you really can’t affect change in that individual. But you can affect the outcome for the entire population if you step back, and get a better picture of it.

Yeah, I like that. Look at the big picture, I think that’s very good advice, Doug. What does your crystal ball say about the future of the animal health industry?

I think that the future of the animal health industry is good, it’s solid. Pet ownership is up, but there are challenges with that because that means that we have more uninformed pet owners. So, back to that herd health thing, there again, we’ve got to think about all these brand-new companion animal pet owners. That need to know what and when to do to their pets, in order to make them the healthiest possible. And that way, they can enjoy the companionship that these pets offer.

As far as the rest of the animal health industry, I think that as time goes on, if we can get more and more veterinarians thinking about the big picture, and how this impacts that. I think we’d be well served, and we’d be much better off in the long run, rather than just spending your time looking at crisper stuff, and looking at slides and that. I think we just really need to back off, and look at the big picture a bit more to help ensure the safety, and the existence in the future of the profession.

Yeah, the safety part, that’s really important. Like you mentioned, some science might seem interesting, but how does that impact something else. So, very good advice there. Doug, I’d love for you to share with our listeners about the projects that you’re up to today.

I’m limited on that, Stacy, this is one of the loaded questions you ask me. Since I do work for a company, there’s some stuff that I’m doing that really can’t be talked about. But probably some of the most important stuff that I do for the company, is in fact outreach and education. In fact, I mentioned I was in a conversation with colleagues from Australia as helping them solve problems down there, and how to go ahead and educate both consumers, and government officials down there. As far as medications and proper utilization of medications in their geographies, et cetera.

So I think that the important thing to think about when we’re thinking about projects. It’s to keep your interest up by basically having your hands in quite a few things, and keeping your interest level high by, obviously, they say variety is the spice of life. And that same thing goes for veterinary medicine too. I’ve got colleagues that have been doing the same thing for years, and they’re becoming bored with it. I’ve got other colleagues that have been doing the same thing for years, but they’ve been curious about it, and they’re still fascinated by veterinary medicine 40 years after they started.

I think the difference there, is having that intellectual curiosity. You might be in the same role, but find new things that you can do to make the position more interesting.

That’s exactly correct.

Yeah, I love that. Doug, what are some of the daily habits that you believe that have allowed you to achieve success?

Well, early to bed, early to rise, it’s pretty classic, but in fact, I do go ahead at the end of the day, organize what I’m going to be starting with the next day. And then, the next day I get up, and I go ahead, and start on that, and plow through it. And it’s amazing what the beauty of being able to check something off your list does for you. Some may say that’s a little bit ADD. Well, I’ll own that. I do like to do projects, I do like to check lists, I do like to think strategically too, though. So I’ll take time to reflect, I’ll get up and stretch my legs, go outside, get some fresh air, think about what I’m dealing with. And see if I can figure out a different way to approach that rather than the typical way of approaching the problem.

What time do you typically wake up in the morning?

I’m an older male, so I’ll wake up all hours. But I’m usually up to stay by about 4:30 or so in the morning.

What time do you usually go to bed?

By 9:00, 9: 15. I tell everybody at my work, I’ve been with the company for about 30 years now, and I say, “You can call me anytime you want. Because I don’t have to get up, and go out and pull a calf in the middle of the freezing night.” So it doesn’t bother me to talk on the phone, but having to get up and run around, that would be a little bit difficult at my age.

Some of the most successful people that I know go to bed early and get up early, so I think that is a component of success for a lot of people. Doug, do you have a mentor who has impacted you greatly? And if so, what mentor has had the biggest impact on your career?

Actually, this is going to sound trite, but my parent. My mother, back in the ’70s, she was the first female department head inside the Iowa State University system, outside the Home economics college. And she was department head of veterinary anatomy at the veterinary school at Iowa State University. And my father, he headed up the medicine class for junior students, and he was the neurologist on staff in the veterinary clinics at Iowa State University when I went through clinical rotations.

And they both really worked hard to understand their discipline, and they worked hard to collaborate with colleagues. It basically lent a very good role model for me as I grew up, and that was definitely the biggest mentorship thing I had to deal with it. Of course, I was very proud of them. And the fun part, probably the most enjoyable part about that is, as I went lecturing around the country and across the globe in the last 30 years. I’ve had occasion to get to know quite a few schoolmates that actually predated my attending veterinary school, and even postdating my attendance in veterinary school, and all of them absolutely admired my parents too. That made me feel really good. I’ve never met any students that didn’t say that my parents had a positive impact on their lives too. So, that’s very rewarding.

Yeah. Your parents were excellent role models, and your mother was really a trailblazer.

Yeah. They both still are too. 90 and 91.

Wow. Well, what has been the biggest adversity that you’ve had to fight throughout your career?

The biggest adversity that I’ve had to fight is probably the complacency of others. Trying to get them as fired up as I am about the things that turn me on, the control of parasites, and effective use of antiparasitics, et cetera, like that. People thinking that, “Oh, that’s easy. You just give them the drug, and it’s done.” “Well, you have to know how the drug works in order to effectively use the drug.” And that goes across the board, whether you’re looking at parasites, or you’re managing diabetes, or you’re dealing with Cushing’s disease in a pet. It’s a big deal, and I think that that would be a thing that we have to go ahead, and strive to fight is complacency.

Yeah. What advice would you give the younger version of yourself?

Oh, boy! If I had it all to do all over again, I’d probably do it pretty much the same way, I might have gone ahead. As I’ve taken on more challenges, I’ve gotten busier and busier and busier. I almost wish that when I first started, I would’ve been a little bit more aggressive with a few opportunities that were thrown my way. I just felt I might be too busy for them, but looking back on it, I wish I had gone ahead, and done that. The company offered training, or got a degree in MBA, I had opportunity to have that, and had the company pay for it. It just would’ve thrown more fire on my daily job. But I have to admit, at that time, part of my daily job was helping raise three kids too. So I think that in the long run, and looking at my kids now, I think I made the right decision. But you can always second guess your life.

What message or principle do you wish you could teach everyone?

What message or principle? Always keep an open mind, always be ready to learn when afforded the opportunity. I think that’s the most important one.

Yeah, keep an open mind, and be ready to learn. That is good advice. Doug, some of our guests say they’ve had a key book that they’ve read that’s really helped them throughout their life, or in their career, maybe even a book that’s changed their mindset, and their approach to success. Is there a key book in your life that’s impacted you the most?

Probably, about everybody else listening to this podcast, it would be All Creatures Great and Small. That book, it satisfied my scientific curiosity, but James Herriot had enough humor in there, that it pointed out, “Hey, there’s opportunities for humor in everything that we do. And you’re on this Earl Earth one time, you might as well enjoy yourself while you’re here.” So that was basically what I picked up from that book. And then I got to see, and hear about all those cool stories of actually assisting animals, et cetera. It was great, actually, the whole series was awesome, all of all the books of the All Creatures series. So I would have to say that.

Well, Doug, you’ve got the mic. What is one thing that you want to share with our listeners of The People of Animal Health Podcast before you drop the mic today?

I’ve already hit it several times, but I think that challenging yourself, and keeping an open mind, find your passion, and reach to be the best that you can be at that, I think is the key. My passion has always been to promote veterinary medicine, to promote understanding of parasitology. In fact, I just finished up the 2022 American Heartworm Society survey. I did the 2001, and every single survey in between, and the insights that I got from doing those surveys are just fascinating. I didn’t have to do them, I volunteered to do them because I thought it would be fun, and my learnings were just amazing.

And doing those surveys, I found out that parasites are very, very focalized. You can have heartworms heavy on one side of town, and on the other side of town where there isn’t a lake, there’s no heartworms. And I saw that across the United States when these practitioners had filled out their surveys, and their numbers, I saw disparity in their numbers with their neighboring practices. I’d just pick up the phone and call them, because part of the survey was including contact information. I’d say, “Why are you seeing heartworms in your neighbors ornate?” “Well, it’s because of this.” I’m like, “Cool.”

So, it’s a learning opportunity. I took advantage, all those learning opportunities. And we’re talking several hundred phone calls during the surveys, especially the initial ones, when I was really trying to get my finger on the pulse so what was going on. One of the crazy things was when we did the 2010 survey, in 2008, and 2009 in most of the United States, there was severe, severe drought.

In fact, as I look out my window of my house here at the lake, I’m looking at was 22 feet down from what it is now at that time. And the crazy thing was the impact that that severe drought had on heartworms because the intermediate host of mosquito was affected. So, you always got to look at the big picture, the herd health aspect of it, keep your mind open, ask questions. I get all those phone calls, I was asking questions. Don’t ever assume, don’t ever think that everything there is to know about veterinary medicine. That’s probably one of the biggest points. But strive to learn all you can learn.

Such good advice to strive to learn everything that you can learn, have that intellectual curiosity, and continue to challenge yourself throughout your career. Well, Doug, the work that you do is so fascinating to me, and I know to our listening audience, so thank you so much for being here today with us on The People of Animal Health Podcast.

It has truly been my pleasure. Thank you so much for the invite, and I look forward to seeing you the next time I see you, in person.