Episode #23 – Mark Ziller

Welcome to The People of Animal Health Podcast. The host of our podcast is Stacy Pursell. Stacy is the leading executive recruiter for the animal health and veterinary industries. She’s the founder of Therio Partners and The VET Recruiter. Stacy has placed more professionals in key positions within the animal health and veterinary industries than any executive search professional. And along the way, Stacy has built relationships with some outstanding people who are doing incredible things to make a difference. The People of Animal Health Podcast features industry leaders and trailblazers who have made a significant impact or are making an impact in the animal health and veterinary industries. Stacy chats with them to learn more about their lives, their careers, and the unique and interesting things that they have done to contribute to the animal health or veterinary industries. She is here to share their stories with you. Now here’s the host of our podcast, Stacy Pursell.

Hello, everyone. Welcome to The People of Animal Health Podcast. On today’s show, we are talking with Mark Ziller. Mark Ziller is the co-founder and CEO of Innovetive Petcare. Innovetive Petcare is a culture first family of veterinary general practices and specialty emergency practices located regionally in Texas, the Gulf Coast and the East Coast. Virtually all of Mark’s professional career has been in the veterinary industry. Prior to Innovetive Petcare, Mark founded TW Medical Veterinary Supply, which Mark and his team grew into a successful business before eventually selling to a large distributor. Mark previously served on the board and was the president of the American Veterinary Distributors Association, or AVDA. We are very pleased to have Mark here on today’s show. Welcome to The People of Animal Health Podcast, Mark, and how are you today?

I’m great. Thank you, Stacy. It’s a pleasure to be here with you today.

Well, we’re so glad to have you on the show today, Mark, because you and I have known each other for many years now and I’m going to hear stories today that I’ve never heard. And so, I’m excited to talk with you about your career story and I know that you’ve had tremendous success throughout your career. I would love today to start off at the bottom, in the very beginning of your career. Mark, what was your life like growing up and where did you grow up?

I grew up in a small college town in Hammond, Louisiana. Really, just a pretty typical middle class upbringing. I had a good family life and really, I was a very shy, introverted kid. I don’t think anyone signed my yearbook saying, “Mark, most likely to go on and start a company or be successful.” So, it’s nothing remarkable, really. If I can do it, anyone can do it.

Well, it’s so interesting that you say that because there have been a number of people that we’ve had on this podcast that were introverted. In fact, my last guest was Chris Ragland, and he said the same thing, that he was also introverted, and I’m an introverted person as well, and many people wouldn’t think that or know that because of the number of people that I talk to on a daily basis because my job is all about talking to people, but I’m also introverted. So, you’ve started a business. I’ve started a business. We’re both entrepreneurs and we both have that in common. So, I’m really curious, Mark, when did you first figure out what you wanted to do professionally?

Stacy, I try to figure it out every day. I think really, I enjoy being an entrepreneur. I like building things and putting the pieces together, finding the talent, coming up with a system and kind of getting out of the way and letting the team succeed. When you start a business and they’re a small business and it’s a true ground up, startup, you do every role and I enjoy many of them, but ultimately it’s the building that I enjoy. And as I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to appreciate how special an opportunity it is to be able to do that.

Well, tell us about the very start of your career.

I think there’s a tendency to end up someplace in life and then people expect there to be a narrative around it, that you must have gotten there on this straight line with great intention and a master plan. And I don’t think that’s always the case. It’s certainly not been the case in my life. I kind of discovered the animal health industry when I was really young, early 20s, fell in love with it, loved the people in this industry. Ended up spending my entire career here because it’s a great industry and there are great people in it. I was in my early 20s when I started my first business, and TW Medical Vet Supply. Started with what we had and based in Austin, Texas and calling on veterinarians, listening to their needs and trials and tribulations, and just building the company. Time goes by and end up building up a reasonably successful business. So, a little bit of luck and good fortune that I’ve found this industry and have been very grateful to spend my career here.

Yes, luck, fortune, but also hard work, because I know that you’ve worked extremely hard throughout those years. I’m curious, in your 20s, and it’s interesting too because I also started in the animal health industry in the vendor profession when I was in my 20s as well. And I just kind of stumbled into the industry and I love the people, and the people is really what attracted me and caused me to stay. How did you discover the industry? And you started a business, how did you go about discovering that need and really getting your business off the ground?

Yeah, it’s amazing. Certainly a lot of hard work and probably because in my 20s I’d really describe myself as a little bit of young and clueless. I had to learn a lot along the way, but made up for it with hard work and just trying to focus on people and the basics. I kind of just stumbled into the industry at a time of transition in my career and I think I was 23 or 24, and had a startup business that was at the time kind of floundering, didn’t like the direction it was going and wanted to build something more sustainable and looked around with the products we had access to and said, “Where could these products be a potential fit?”

And looked at some other things like dental and medical, and these are very mature, established markets and a lot of competition. I don’t see any real novel thing we can do there. And just asked the question, would veterinarians have any interest in some of these? And started pounding on doors and talking to veterinarians. At the time, it was a very fragmented Market. There was a lot of opportunity for a company that really focused on service to make a foothold. And that’s what we did. We were a startup, we definitely were the underdog, didn’t have all the advantages or the products available to some of the big guys, but we took good care of customers, and just off to the races.

Yeah. Well, that’s a great story and I know that you’ve, like I said before, had a lot of success. But was there ever a point in time when you felt like, I am really beginning to gain some traction with my career?

It’s an interesting question. I don’t think there was ever a moment that was the eureka moment. “Wow, I’ve made it.” It was always a journey, and with startups and as an entrepreneur, there are just trials and tribulations. You have good years and bad years and good days and bad days. There are times you feel like you can conquer the world and are unstoppable and there are times you feel like you’ll never make it to the top of the hill. I’ve been fortunate to work with some really great people and had good teams, and it’s been a fun journey and there… absolutely trials and tribulations along the way.

I don’t know that there was ever a point where I said, “Gee, we’ve made it.” I’m always looking for the next challenge and how we can do better in what we’re doing. I think that’s part of the reward of doing it, is you are building something, but it is a building process. You don’t suddenly say the skyscraper’s built, you’re trying to add the next floor and get better every day.

I like what you said about that, with the building process and also about the journey. You’ve got some good days, some bad days, some high points, some low points, and I think that’s the case with every person’s career and probably every business that’s being built as well. And I know that we’ve talked about your tremendous success, but you’ve probably also had some low points too. So, walk us through some of the highest high and some of the lowest low points of your career.

Look, I think over time, and look, I’ve built businesses that grew and matured as organizations. I grew and matured as a person and as a leader. Early on, we had some great growth and were, Inc. 500 Fastest-Growing Companies a number of years in a row. And it was a nice external validation in a way, to see the growth and what we’d accomplished. But I think as I matured, you recognize, look, some of that’s ego and it’s not all about the growth. The more sustainable things are the people around you and how the teams are doing, and it’s about people. And so, I learned to take satisfaction really in seeing the pieces come together and an amazing team come together and what other people are able to accomplish.

On the lows, look, I think if you’re an entrepreneur, you’re hugely invested in what you do and you take a lot of personal identity around it. And so, you take a lot of things personally and you can’t help it. What I have learned over time is that it has to even out or you’ll beat yourself up. I had another good CEO one time talk about negative fantasies and I think we all know what a fantasy is. You can fantasize about a vacation you’ve always wanted or a house or whatever it is, something positive, but they’re another type of fantasies and they’re the negative fantasies. There’s the, “Oh my goodness, this is going to happen. Something bad’s going to happen, a business is going to fail, some bad outcome will happen.”

And I think it’s easy to, in times of challenge, latch onto a negative fantasy and you’ve got to realize no, look, things are going to be okay, and work through it. So, look, I’ve been running companies for 30 years, definitely it’s not all highs. It takes hard work and there are going to be setbacks, but at the end of the day it does work out. You keep focused on what you need and it will be okay.

Yeah, such a good point when you were talking about the fantasies, because like what you were saying, I think a fantasy like that beach vacation or that cruise you want to go on, but thinking about the things that could go wrong and one of the things that I’ve learned to do over the years, because as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, you have to take risks. And one of the things that I’ve asked myself along the way is, what is the worst thing that could happen or what is the worst case scenario? How bad could it be?

And then, surprisingly often your idea works, or that thing that you were envisioning that could happen negative, it doesn’t happen. And if the worst case scenario isn’t a terrible thing, then you take the risk and oftentimes it works out. So, I know that we were talking about highs and lows and often we learn the most from some of the low points that we experience. And I’m curious, throughout your career as you’ve had highs and lows, if you could think back to a low point, what is something that you learned the most from one of those experiences?

Yeah, it is unfortunate how much of life’s lessons you don’t learn from the successes and the easy times. It’s when the chips are really down and things are tough or not going well that you learn. Look, I think in the end, just to stay sane and focused what you’ve learned, look, friends and family matter a huge amount. You’ve got to have your priorities in order, you’ve got to stay healthy, you’ve got to exercise and do things to take care of yourself.

You’ll get through bad periods, they’re going to happen, bad things will happen over time, but it goes to your point, but then what? The world is not going to fall apart. You’ll get through it, it’s a bad period, but it is just a period and it will pass. You can’t lose track of friends and family and health and other things. You have to take care of yourself to be able to get through it and support your team and people that count on you.

Yeah, that’s so true. And what a good reminder too, some of those things, the basic things in life, stay connected to your relationships, be healthy, eat well, exercise, because I think sometimes, and I do this, my vacation will be coming up or last week I was traveling to the VMX show and I was gone for eight days, and I needed to be there. But then I think, okay, things are going to fall apart if I’m not in my office. And nothing fell apart and I go on vacation. I think, okay, if I’m not here, things are going to fall apart. Well, that doesn’t happen.

And so, you’re just back at it. And so, just taking that time away to go on a vacation, those are such important things. Well, I know you’ve been in the industry for many years and I’m curious what changes have you seen across both the animal health industry and also the veterinary profession during your tenure?

Boy Stacy, we’ve certainly seen a lot of change over time and I know you have as well. When I started in this industry, it was much smaller and it didn’t have a lot of public visibility. People didn’t think about and talk about the vet industry a lot. It was a much smaller industry. And today it is a mature, big multi-billion dollar industry that has a lot of public visibility and a lot of new people and outsiders have come into the industry, and I think there are pluses and minuses to that. Look, it’s great to have different perspectives and fresh ideas. I think there’s a little bit of what I’d call humanization of the industry, as you’ve got a lot of people that haven’t spent their entire career coming in. They’re coming in from human healthcare or retail or private equity. And so, in a way it’s great to have fresh perspectives. In a way, I think a little bit of the charm gets lost.

It’s become not just about pets, it’s become a big business and we’re trying to balance that this is really about people and pets first. At the same time, I think there are many aspects that haven’t changed and I’m really happy for that. This profession is filled with really passionate people that care about pets. It’s very much a people in relationship industry. It’s got a lot of people that, like you and I, have spent their entire careers here. And there’s just a lot of great aspects of that, that the people still are the selling point of the industry. Yes, you get to work around pets or with pets, but it’s the people that work in this industry that make it so special. And I’m glad that part hasn’t changed.

Yes, I agree with you. The people and the passion for the pets and the people, that’s what attracted both of us to the industry and it’s fun to look back and see where we started and where we came from. And it’s also interesting to think about the future too. And I’m curious, Mark, what does your crystal ball say about the future of both the animal health industry and the veterinary profession?

I think it’s going to be an amazing future. As you well know, there’s a shortage of workers now, veterinarians and staff, but that’s a transitory thing. That will right itself over time. The fundamentals that drive this industry are still there. Pet ownership continues to be at record levels and grow. The human animal bond has never been stronger. People love their pets and are willing to spend money and sacrifice to make sure their pets live a happy, healthy life.

There are many people that want to be in this profession and industry, and there are lots of change happening now and it makes some people nervous, but I think many of the things are really going to have a bright future. Some of it is disruptive in the short run, but I think this is going to continue to be a great industry and great prospects for people that work in it.

Yes, lots of opportunities too. And I’d love to focus on the kind of projects that you’re up to today because I know you’re very busy with Innovetive and very influential within the industry and I’d love for you to share with us about the kinds of projects that you’re working on today.

Yeah. Look, we stay really busy and are trying to always adjust the tactics and services and support we provide our practices so they can be successful, and that changes over time. But we try to make sure we keep focused on the big picture. It’s about people. We’ve got to find ways to support the people and provide what they need. Last year we launched a new grad mentorship program that we’re continuing to flesh out and develop and we’re really excited about that. In fact, this weekend there’s… we’re over-subscribed to the ultrasound class that we’re doing here in Austin. I think we have 20 relatively new grads joining. Excited about that.

We’ve launched a whole new program to support our practices around remaining competitive and continuing to win pharmacy orders for the practices and not lose that to out-of-channel competitors, where we can help our practices take a lift off of them and keep that business in place. Doing a lot around marketing for our practices. As the economy turns and there are different challenges, we want to make sure local pet owners know our practices are the place to go for great care and to let them see the good reviews. There are lots of things we’re working on, and it changes all the time. We’re trying to look around the corners of what’s happening in the world and make sure our practices are positioned to continue being successful.

Yes. And I’m curious about what a typical day is like for you personally at Innovetive. I’m curious, what time do you wake up in the morning and how do you organize your day?

I’d say fairly busy. I get up early. I’ve found that if I don’t work out early, that life gets in the way, family commitments get in the way and I just don’t work out consistently. So, I get up at 5:00, work out, have a good hard workout for about an hour and then shower and check emails and get into the office. And that works great for me. Honestly, I wasn’t really a morning person until fairly late in life, but now that I do this routine, I have so much more energy on days that I’m working out. Really, most of my day is spent with people, talking to people in meetings, trying to make sure my team has the tools and resources they need. I don’t know that there’s a typical day, but it’s centered around people so…

Well, what would you say are a few of your daily habits that you believe have allowed you to achieve success? I know that you just talked about getting up early, exercising, but what are some of the other daily habits along the way that have allowed you to achieve success?

Look, I think adapting the calendar to make sure I block some time for the projects I want has been an important thing I do, that type of time management. There are a lot of meetings and phone calls and you could easily fill all your day plus with that type of thing, or with just emails. I try to go into my calendar several weeks in advance, a month in advance and block off blocks of time. It may be 30 minutes or an hour. There may be one or two a day like that.

Whatever projects I need to be moving along, I’m blocking time on the calendar just like it’s a meeting. And that way I get to make sure no matter what else happens in the day, whatever chaos pops up, however many demands there are, it’s like a meeting. I’ve got an hour or two a day to move the key things along and I find that works for me. I’m still able to focus on the priority things and don’t let the urgent things derail me too much.

I do the same thing. I also organize my calendar in blocks of time too, because it’s so easy to get distracted by a phone call or an email or something coming in that kind of takes you off of whatever it is that you’re focused on. So, I’ve found that to be a great tip. I’m curious, Mark, what mentor has been the biggest impact on your career up to this point?

I’m going to have to go with the plural here, Stacy. When I was fairly early in my career, I joined a peer CEO group. It was called The Executive Committee back then, or Tech and it renamed itself Vistage, but it was a peer group of CEOs from non-competitive industries that would get together once a month and round table things, talk about issues, hear speakers, and it was hugely influential for me to learn from other people and see what worked for them and have a sounding board, some incredibly talented people in that.

And I’m a big believer in that peer-based learning model. In fact, we’ve partnered with VSG so that all of our practices at Innovetive now have a chance to have a peer-based learning model among themselves. It’s not just what Innovetive shares sort of top down. They get to learn from other peers at great Innovetive practices in a peer-based model, because I am a big believer in that.

Yeah, that’s great. I’m curious, what has been the biggest adversity that you’ve had to fight throughout your career?

Stacy, look, I’m an entrepreneur. I’ve done startups. So, I think the biggest consistent adversity is, I’ve always been the underdog. Our company’s always been smaller or less capitalized, less resources. We were always in the building mode, so you had to get good at the things you did and working with what you had available. So, I guess what’s the biggest adversity? Look, we were always an underdog and that’s okay. We’ve been successful at what we wanted to accomplish. Our goal was never to be the biggest in the things we did. It was to be really good at it, but certainly has challenges when you are a startup in a smaller company.

I have worked with many underdog companies throughout my career and I find those are some of the most fun companies to work with. People are highly motivated to win and I love that. What advice would you give the younger version of yourself?

It kind of scares me thinking back to the younger version of myself. I was blissfully ignorant. Look, I think there are definitely some key things that I would love to tell the younger version of myself. I think I succeeded early on because I worked hard, not because I was particularly skilled or wise, and I think I didn’t spend enough time on networking and people and relationships and doing things broader in the industry, because I always had my head down and was trying just to get things done. And those things are hugely important. Giving back, serving on boards, networking, making connections, hugely important. Didn’t come naturally to me, as someone who was shy and introverted. But over time I’ve learned how important it is and how rewarding it is to have relationships throughout the industry. And I wish I had started some of that earlier. I wish I had started-

It’s so important, those connections.

It’s incredibly important. It is. I wish I had gotten into fitness a lot earlier. I was in my mid 40s before I really ever started working out and getting serious about it. And I have so much more energy when I do, and wish I had done that earlier, but glad I finally got around to it.

Yes. We find that most successful people tend to have some idiosyncrasies that actually can become their superpower. I’m curious if you have an idiosyncrasy that is your superpower.

Well, I’m glad I get a chance to answer this and you’re not asking my wife or coworkers. They may have a really long list. Yeah, I don’t know about superpower Stacy, but I’ll share this with you. I’m generally pretty self-aware of my strengths and weaknesses. There are some things I’m pretty good at. And there’s some areas where I’m definitely weaker and I’ve tried to hire talented people to fill in around those areas so that we balance each other out, make a good team. But there are areas that apparently I was a little bit blinded to. It was much later in life really, when I had kids finally, that I started to look and say, “Boy, my kids seem kind of ADD.” My wife’s kind of rolled her eyes and said, “Gee, I wonder where they get that?” And I’m kind of like, “Yeah, it does seem a lot like me.”

I am incredibly ADD. I have a hard time sitting through meetings and focusing for long periods of time. I’m constantly needing to learn new things. I can’t just sit. I need to be doing one thing, if not three or four things. I guess the sort of superpower side of that, and I don’t know how much of a superpower it is, it’s a strange dichotomy. People that tend to be ADD also have this strange ability to be able to dive incredibly in-depth into something. And it’s not that you just can’t ever focus, but you tend to latch onto things. I can find a new subject I need to become good at, immerse myself and learn it quickly and in-depth, probably while juggling a ball and humming a tune. But anyway, I definitely have learned over time that one of my idiosyncrasies is that I am ADD and I’ve kind of got to manage myself.

Yeah, I have often said to people that I must have undiagnosed ADD. I’ve never been diagnosed with it, but I must have it because I’m a lot like that too. Mark, what message or principle do you wish you could teach everyone?

In a business context, I think can’t under under-appreciate the impact of culture. And it’s one of the things that can be hard to articulate, but you can sense right away if they have it or not. You walk into a facility or a team, you can sense it. It’s not meant in my mind to be a fancy slogan that’s printed on the wall or a mission statement. To me, culture is the sum of all your actual interactions. What’s reality? How do you really live and interact with people? And it can’t be fake. It is reality, but it can be aspirational. It can be who you want to be, how you want to act as a company, as long as it’s genuine and you’re working towards it, that aspirational element’s really powerful. And I think it’s a key element to being happy at work, is to be part of a good culture. Everyone in a company is a cultural ambassador. It’s the interaction of every single person.

Mark, you are super successful, but what do you struggle with the most? What is your weakness? What is your kryptonite?

It would be hard to narrow it down. I have plenty of weaknesses. I am still shy and introverted. My role requires me to be outgoing. That doesn’t mean I’m gifted at it or it comes naturally. And I think that it’s still difficult at times to have difficult conversations and to do the peopling side of things. Certainly, I get better over time and try to continue getting better. I also hire and surround myself with really talented people and I learn from everybody, peers, coworkers, anyone around all the time. Look, I have plenty of weaknesses, but I try to just be open about it. I don’t have to be perfect and because I have a weakness, that just means there’s an opportunity to learn or find great people that are good at that thing.

Yes. Going back to the point about shyness and being introverted, because I share with you that I’m also introverted. I can remember back when I was a kid in elementary school, I would hide behind my mother’s legs. I mean, I was a really shy, introverted kid. And then for me, I was in high school and I finally one day said, “Why am I shy and introverted?” And I just forced myself to be outgoing, but it didn’t come naturally. And then I went to college and got a degree in broadcasting journalism, which really forced me to… I anchored a newscast when I was in college.

And so, that really forced me to not be that way, but it’s very natural for me to be introverted and I’ve just had to force myself over the years to put myself out there. And like you, my job also requires that. I’m curious, how do you get past that? Because there’s a lot of people that, I mentioned Chris Ragland was on the podcast and people wouldn’t think that Chris Ragland is introverted. How have you pushed yourself in that area, because you’re working with people all day?

Just like you went to college and went into broadcasting and kind of forced yourself to do it, I think that’s part of it. You have to do it and you may be very uncomfortable. You have to get out of a comfort zone. Look, if the thing is making you uncomfortable and you say, “Well, I’m not going to do it because of that,” you won’t get better. It may be miserable the first couple of times you do it, and I’m sure if I had anyone who had recorded my early speaking engagements, they would’ve been horrible.

In fact, I took public speaking class in both high school and college and only passed because of the incredible generosity of my teachers. It didn’t come naturally. I think the key is, you do it and you try to learn. You say, “Look, what went well and how do you do it?” And as you begin to get confidence, it doesn’t come naturally. I don’t love it. I don’t seek out the spotlight to this day, but it comes with the role so I go do it. I know Chris Ragland well, he is a good speaker and I know I wouldn’t have suspected that he was an introvert, but I feel for him.

I don’t know if you’re a reader, but I’m curious, are there any books that you believe that all of our listeners should read?

I think I’ve always been a voracious consumer of information and knowledge. Most of my life, I did read books avidly and then as the technology changed and I traveled a lot, I switched to a Kindle, an electronic reader. And over the last, I don’t know, decade I’ve probably switched to more audiobooks and podcasts like yours. I really like podcasts and it’s a great way to learn. One that I really enjoy consistently and that I think I find inspirational and informative is, I really like the podcast by Guy Raz, How I Built This, where he interviews different entrepreneurs and founders. The success stories are amazing. It’s cathartic to hear other people’s trials and tribulations and how they overcame. There’s a lot of just great themes in it. I think anyone that’s interested in business or entrepreneurship would find that to be both an entertaining and informative read or listen, as it would be.

There’s so many great podcasts out there, and I like podcasts too, because you can be driving in your car or doing exercise and being able to learn that way. Well, I know that you don’t like the spotlight, but I’m going to give you the spotlight and you’ve got the mic, Mark. What is one thing that you want to share with our listeners of The People of Animal Health Podcast before you drop the mic today?

Well, thank you. Look, Stacy, thank you for everything you do for the profession. Thank you for putting on the podcast. I love the title of your podcast, The People of Animal Health, because really this industry, this profession is about people and relationships. There’s some amazing people in it. Our business is centered around people and culture. Your whole business is around people and matching people together. People are what make this industry special, and I hope that never changes. So, thanks for everything you do and helping in your part of that, and for putting on the podcast.

Yes, I love it. That’s the best part of my job, is that I get to work with people and talk with people and hear their stories, like I’m having the opportunity to hear your story today, because like I said, we’ve known each other for a long time and I didn’t know some of the beginnings of your career and how you got started and how you started some of these businesses. So, very thankful to you, Mark, for being here on The People of Animal Health Podcast today.

Thank you, Stacy. It was a pleasure. Have a great day.