Episode #14 – Dr. Pamelar Hale

Be Tenacious, Be a Leader
With the belief that fear has helped her be resilient, Dr. Hale has used her superior frame of mind and love of helping people to build an exceptional career.

Speaker 1:
Welcome to the People of Animal Health Podcast. The host of our podcast is Stacy Pursell. Stacy is the leading executive recruiter for the animal health and veterinary industries. She’s the founder of Therio partners and the vet recruiter. Stacy has placed more professionals in key positions within the animal health and veterinary industries than any executive search professional. And along the way, Stacy has built relationships with some outstanding people who are doing incredible things to make a difference. The People of Animal Health Podcast features industry leaders and trailblazers who have made a significant impact or are making an impact in the animal health and veterinary industries. Stacy chats with them to learn more about their lives, their careers, and the unique and interesting things that they have done to contribute to the animal health or veterinary industry. She is here to share their stories with you. Now here’s the host of our podcast, Stacy Pursell.

Stacy Pursell:
Hello and welcome to the People of Animal Health Podcast. On today’s show, we are talking with Dr. Pam Hale, a veterinarian who has had a fascinating career in various leadership roles across the veterinary profession. Dr. Pam Hale is a veterinarian who is currently the Chief Medical Officer, US, of Destination Pet. Destination Pet is a national veterinary hospital group with more than 55 veterinary hospitals. Dr. Hale is a hands-on veterinary practice executive with more than 30 years of experience in startup operations and working for large veterinary consolidators. After receiving her undergraduate degree in animal science and her doctor of veterinary medicine degree from Tuskegee University’s dual degree program, Dr. Hale joined PetSmart veterinary services in 1995 and grew her career with the company throughout multiple mergers and acquisitions eventually as Banfield East Regional Medical Director. As the East Regional Medical Director, Dr. Hale’s responsibilities included operational oversight of over 200 hospitals.

Stacy Pursell:
In 2009, Dr. Hale joined the National Veterinary Associates or NVA and became the Senior Division Director for the east coast region with 90 hospitals. In 2014, Dr. Hale transitioned into the humane animal world as vice-president of medical operations with the Arizona Humane Society in Phoenix, Arizona, as well as completed her Master of Business Administration degree that year. In 2018, she was appointed to the American Veterinary Medical Association, the AVMA Professional Liability Insurance Trust Board. Dr. Hale enjoys reading, listening to jazz music, and traveling internationally. She is married to Chuck, a United States Air Force Veteran Officer. They have six dogs. Nina, Miss Pink, Jack Leo, Harvey, Abner, and Beatty Cake Star. Welcome onto the People of Animal Health Podcast and how are you Dr. Hale?

Dr. Hale:
Well, I’m doing fine and thank you very much, Stacy, for the invitation to be here and what an introduction more so around the fact that I have six dogs. When I see it on paper, that can be a little bit overwhelming, but they’re all my babies for sure. But thank you again for having me.

Stacy Pursell:
Yes. We’re so glad to be here. Thanks again for being on our show. And sometime I’m going to have to ask you how you came up with the names for all six of the dogs. So Dr. Hale, I know that you have experienced tremendous success at this point in your career, but I’d love to start off at the bottom and the very beginning of your career. What was your life like growing up and where did you grow up?

Dr. Hale:
I think I had a wonderful childhood. I am an only child. I usually tell people that I’m an only child, a military brat and a preacher’s kid, that should explain a lot about me as you guys get to know me here. But I was born in Alabama. My family’s from Alabama. My father was a Minister. He went into the air force when I was about 10 years old. And so from there, we traveled and lived in different cities and states across the US. Very, very warm parents. Parents that wanted to teach me responsibility and accountability. They didn’t let me get away with very much, of course, being an only child. They also allowed me to pursue my passion as they were also people with professions that were, I call them, professions of passion. My dad being a Minister and my mom being a nurse.

Stacy Pursell:
Well, it sounds like you had an excellent childhood and I’m curious, when did you first figure out what you wanted to do professionally?

Dr. Hale:
No, that’s funny because it was when I was seven years old and I say, it’s funny because it happened because my parents would give me pets. I got my first puppy probably when I was six or seven. And what the funny part is we were actually living in Tuskegee, Alabama, and that’s of course, where I ended up going to veterinarian school. So I would get puppies at Christmas time and something would happen to the puppies. And if they ever got sick, the puppy would disappear and I just get a new puppy. And I finally figured out these puppies were getting sick or something was wrong. And of course back then it was very… We’re a young family, not very much money to do medical care. And I said, “What if I could be a dog doctor, I could have taken care of my puppies.” And that’s actually my memory of deciding to become a veterinarian. And I told my parents at seven years old that I was going to become a dog doctor.

Stacy Pursell:
Wow. Wow. That’s an incredible story. So you became a dog doctor, became a veterinarian. Tell us the story of your early career in the veterinary profession. How did you get started?

Dr. Hale:
Sure. So I attended Tuskegee for my undergrad and veterinary school. So I was there for seven years. My first job was actually in Knoxville, Tennessee with a Tuskegee alumni. I had three job offers when I came out of school. I understand now I graduate tell of the 12 or 15 or 20 job offers due to the market, but I had three. I chose Knoxville, Tennessee, the practicing, warm and inviting. In addition, it’s beautiful in that part of the country. East Tennessee is beautiful at the foot of the Smoky mountains. So, I was there for nine years, but I did leave there after two years and went and worked for Purina Therapeutic Diets because I wanted to try that for a little while. But I did go back to practice within a year. I figured I wasn’t ready for that type of role. So I stayed in this small little practice. It was a solo practitioner. He owned it, one doctor owned it and I worked for him there for nine years.

Dr. Hale:
And I left there after nine years. He actually had two sons and they were both very young when I started there, 11 and 13. But the goal was that they were going to veterinary school and then come back to help run the practice. So when I saw one of them into veterinary school, I knew it was time for me to make my move. And that’s when I left after nine years. But I had a great time there. I learned a lot.

Stacy Pursell:
So you went from veterinary school to working for Purina and then to veterinary practice. Is that right?

Dr. Hale:
Actually, I did the practice first. I was there for two years, went and worked for Purina for about a year and then back to that same practice.

Stacy Pursell:
Back to the same practice. Okay. Got it. So you worked in the same practice and you said for nine years. And then where did you go from there? And I’m really curious, because you were working in a vet clinic as a veterinarian in individual contributor role. And then you get got increasing responsibility and leadership roles outside of a single practice. So, how did you do that?

Dr. Hale:
When I left that single owned practice, a little practice, I went to Atlanta. My parents had actually moved to Atlanta. They had retired there from the military and I wanted to try something different. I had been in a solo owned practice, with the one owner [inaudible 00:08:10] cares [inaudible 00:08:11] how the [inaudible 00:08:13] was run or making decisions really [inaudible 00:08:17] inside the PetSmart stores. At that time in Atlanta, they were called PetSmart veterinary services. So I applied. I applied for roles within that company. And I say that was sort of my launching pad for these different roles that I’ve held because when I moved into what we call corporate veterinary medicine, then I was allowed to become a Chief of staff. And then after a couple of years, I was promoted to a Regional Medical Director role. And it just kept growing like that over 15 years. And every time an opportunity came about for me to take an additional leadership role, I would sort of raise my hand and say, I’ve never done that before, but I’d like to learn how to do that.

Dr. Hale:
And of course I was being successful in the roles that I was in from Chief of Staff to Medical Director to Regional Medical Director. And I grew in those roles over 15 years. So I always sort of say it was a little bit of luck, but what did they say is that luck is preparedness meeting opportunity. So as all those opportunities came about, I said, “Hey, I want to try these different roles.”

Stacy Pursell:
What would you say to other veterinarians that are starting out in their career, who are interested in leadership roles? How can they move into roles of increased responsibility?

Dr. Hale:
I’ve talked about this before. It’s important to let those that you’re working with know what your aspirations are. Don’t be afraid to speak up and say, “Hey, I’m interested in that type of role,” whether it’s a Chief of Staff, Medical Director, Lead Veterinarian, Training role. Let people know what your interest is. Find an advocate and an ally within your group, whether it’s your Regional Medical Director you already have, whether you’re an associate and you want to talk to your Chief of Staff about how do you become a chief of staff. I also say, be tenacious. Don’t let people tell you that you can never have this role or be in this type of position. You get to decide that by preparing yourself. Also invest in yourself. I really strongly believe. And if you’re interested in leadership, start taking some leadership courses online or get an additional degree. I decided to go and get my MBA after many, many years because I was doing MBA level work and I want it to be able to demonstrate that right away. Jump in, even if you’re not ready.

Dr. Hale:
Meaning we learn how to do spays and surgeries. And we’re still learning as we’re doing them for the first few times. So it’s okay to say, “Hey, I want to put on a training in my veterinary hospital.” And that showed leadership as well. Be a leader. Even if you don’t have the title. Leadership is really not about a title. It’s more about how you demonstrate that to other people in the hospital. You can be a leader when the Chief of Staff is not there. You can be a leader with the veterinary team. So be always that person that they know they can lean on to help lead the hospital. And I always say this, do not listen to the naysayers. There are going to be naysayers that tell you, “Hey, you don’t want this role.” “Hey, you’re not good enough for this role.” Don’t listen to the naysayers, just prepare yourself and be ready when those opportunities come.

Stacy Pursell:
That’s some great advice. So you said, find an advocate, be tenacious, invest in yourself, jump in. So even if you haven’t done that before and you feel like I don’t have this title, do it anyway. Be a leader, even if you don’t have the title. And don’t listen to the naysayers. All very good advice. I’m curious as you look back, was there a time when you felt like you were really truly beginning to gain traction with your career?

Dr. Hale:
No, I would say it’s after I left private practice because I think if I’d stayed and then practiced there, I would not have head up leadership opportunities. One, the owner was there and then his sons were going to come back and lead, which they have and have done a great job. I’m very proud of that practice and helping to build it. But I don’t think I would have had the opportunity to grow. So trying something different. In other words, I left the traditional veterinary practice to go work inside of a pet store. Now that was a little scary. I actually remember thinking, “Wow, people are going to doubt the fact that I’m a real doctor” and sure, I didn’t get that in my first role in PetSmart Veterinary Services as the chief of staff. People call us doctors in a box as if we really didn’t go to veterinary school and we really weren’t doctors.

Dr. Hale:
So I would say when I left that and went to what we would call corporate veterinary medicine now, because that was very new back then in the late nineties. The opportunity then to manage and lead other hospitals and other doctors, which you couldn’t do in a private practice.

Stacy Pursell:
What would you say to people that have that fear of doing those things that they haven’t done before? I mean, obviously you were able to work through that, you did it anyway, but what would you say to those people that are wanting to do bigger things and take on more responsibility, but there’s this fear factor there.

Dr. Hale:
Fear is good. I’m fearful every day. I mean that in a positive way. Right now with the role that I have now is Chief Medical Officer, responsible for lots of doctors and lots of hospitals. Am I making the best decision for these hospital teams? Am I supporting my doctors as well as I should? I think fear should be a launching pad. And we shouldn’t be, it sounds, I don’t know if I… Afraid of fear. We shouldn’t be afraid of fear because I think that also helps us to be resilient. If we’re never afraid, then we don’t actually know when we’re having the times, when the world is right and everything’s right with us. So I see fear as just part of the growth that you’ll have and use it as a launching pad also.

Stacy Pursell:
So use fear as a launching pad and be resilient. Resiliency has been a common theme on this podcast. So, I know that many successful people, they have some highs and some lows in their career. I mean, every day is not a high, there are some low points. What is the highest high and what’s been the lowest low of your career so far?

Dr. Hale:
Well, I think it’s been great to be able to achieve the positions that I have, but I always remind people that titles are rented and your character is what you must wear all the time. So, I have a drawer full of name tags. I have a Rolodex full of business cards of mine that have different titles on them. So while it’s always fun, when I get in a new position or get promoted to Chief Medical Officer or Senior Vice President of Operations or Senior Division Director, I also know that those may not be positions forever and that’s okay because that’s part of growth as well. For me, also a high is helping to develop other people to what they aspire to. I think I’ve reached some really nice key mile markers in my career so I like helping other doctors or other veterinary professionals move into positions that they’re interested in. So that’s why I really like developing training programs for my doctors and my teams in that respect, around leadership. So I would say that those things right now are what really motivate me and what really inspire me as well.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah, that’s great. I mean, because at some point, you’ve had that mentorship throughout your career, that at some point, you become that mentor and giving back and helping grow and develop other people. Speaking of mentors, what mentor has made the biggest impact on your career?

Dr. Hale:
I would say in the very beginning, when I was with PetSmart Veterinary Services, and then I was able to move into Regional Management, our Regional Leaders or Vice Presidents would come right in our cars with us as we visited hospitals. So, and that’s when I would pick their brain and talk to them about leadership and talk to them about the hospital teams and what could I do differently. And some of them were Dr. Jim [Wheaton 00:16:38]. He was with PetSmart Veterinary Services. I still am in touch with Dr. Wheaton periodically on Facebook. Very nice, kind [inaudible 00:16:47] when he talk with you, you can hear everything he said the way he said it to you made it easy to take and would share all that he knew. Dr. [Will Novak 00:16:58], who I met with also PetSmart Vet Services. PetSmart, actually after PetSmart Vet Services. He was probably the first one who let me know that I was doing something different than other leaders were doing because of the success that I was getting.

Dr. Hale:
I remember him sitting me down and saying, during an evaluation, he said, “What are you doing?” And at first thought I was doing something wrong. I said, “What do you mean?” He goes, “You have the best doctor this, results that.” And I said, “Well, isn’t everybody doing what I’m doing?” He goes, “No, what are you doing?” So I remember that vividly that he was my advocate and he let me know that I was doing some things right. And that helped me to inspire myself, but also to continue to want to do well. And then of course, I would say Dr. Scott Campbell, who actually started VetSmart even as the CEO and founder of the company, he would come get in the car and ride with you and talk about having that type of brain trust in your car was amazing. So I would put those three is the ones that I really probably model most of my leadership around.

Stacy Pursell:
All giants. All giants, all legends in this industry. And wow, I’m curious, what has been the most surprising thing to you during your career in the veterinary profession up to this point?

Dr. Hale:
I must admit, I mean, I am a woman of color and a female, obviously. I identify as female. So I still come up against bias. There’s still bias in the veterinary community. It is still fairly… We call it the widest profession, because minorities make up probably less than 2% of the profession. So periodically I still run up against bias with the veterinarians that I might meet and I’m going to be working with them with their hospitals. Even in a C-suite role periodically, I will be diminished or I call it when you’re talking and someone starts talking over you and you sort of say, “Excuse me, I was talking there.” So I would say when that happens, that sometimes it’s still surprising, not completely because I try to be prepared for it. And that’s one thing I always like to talk about with my young minority veterinarians or minority veterinarians, period, is to be prepared for when you experienced that bias. And again, don’t let that type of thing diminish you or deter you as well.

Stacy Pursell:
Such good advice. One of the things that frustrates me is people that interrupt. That’s a sort of a pet peeve of mine. You just mentioned that. How have you seen the veterinary profession change over the years?

Dr. Hale:
Most obviously is the corporatization. The consolidation of veterinary practices under groups that are now primarily owned by private equity. While they’re still the majority of veterinary practices out there that are not in a group. I think it’s going to continue to grow. I think they say about 5,000 veterinary practices are in veterinary groups, and they’re estimated to be about 25,000 practices out there. So, that’s the biggest change and there are good things about that and there are bad things about that. Obviously, the good things are increasing in salary for veterinarians. That’s a big change as well. I tell people that when I was graduating, they said never to expect to make more than $45,000 a year as an associate doctor. And I remember shrugging my shoulders and said, “Okay, well, I’ve never made 45,000. Sounds good to me.” So, the fact that veterinarian salary has increased, again, the shortage of veterinarians, the explosion of the pet care industry that makes us more of a valued, rare breed, and excuse the pun there, as far as our industry goes. But I would say those things.

Stacy Pursell:
It’s interesting, the salary piece of that. I remember when I first started recruiting in the veterinary industry, and this was about, was in the late nineties, nineties, somewhere between ’97 and ’99. I’ll never forget. I found this veterinarian in Dallas, Texas, and she was five years out of a veterinary school. And she was making 35,000 a year. Had no benefits. Had to pay for her own white coat. Didn’t get any paid time off. If she took time off, she had to pay for it. She had to pay for her own CE. And I remember thinking at the time, I’m seeing undergraduate students getting 35,000. How can this be? That’s just not… It’s not right. And I’ll never forget that Banfield made her an offer for $55,000. And she called me crying. And she said, “I feel like I have won the lottery today.” So, I mean, Banfield really paved the way as did some of the other corporations with helping to elevate the salaries and benefits packages. Veterinarians, you just last week. We had a veterinarian that we were talking to that had a salary of 84,000 and of our clients just offered him 150,000.

Stacy Pursell:
We had another veterinarian making 150 and a client of ours just offered her 200. So the salaries are really increasing in the profession so that the shortage is helping with that. But like you said, the growth of the industry, those are all positive things. What does your crystal ball say about the future of the veterinary profession?

Dr. Hale:
I believe it’s the pet industry is going to continue to grow. It’s worth a 100 billion dollars now with, I think about 70% of that being veterinary care. I mean, just a few years ago, it was 45 billion. So I think it’s going to continue to grow with each generation, the millennials, the generation after millennials and pet ownership and what we call the humanization of pet care as well. I have six dogs and they all have to sleep on the bed. I don’t know how that happens, but no longer they in kennels are obviously out in the backyard and things like that. I also believe there will be more corporate groups, more buying of individual veterinary practices by the corporate groups. If our younger veterinarians coming along are still not interested in owning and buying practices because our practice owners have to be able to recognize their equity and hard work over the years. And if that’s where they have to go to do that by the groups buying them, I think that’s going to continue.

Dr. Hale:
I think the salaries are going to continue to go up for a while. There’s going to be a cap on that eventually, that bubble’s going to burst after a while. We start getting up, like you mentioned a $200,000 salary for a practitioner that I would say it’s probably getting close to where we will top out eventually. But I would say the pet industry and the veterinary piece of that, we are valued. In the society, we’re usually the top three most respected professions that people love to hear about. I can’t get on a plane and tell anyone I’m a veterinarian because they all smile and they all want to tell me about their pets. So, I have a great outlook for our profession. And I’m very happy about that as well.

Stacy Pursell:
Yes, yes. And that 200,000 salary was in California. I should mention that too. Well today, I’d love for you to share with our listeners about the kinds of projects that you’re up to you. For example, tell us about your current role at Destination Pet. I am curious about that. And also what a typical day looks like for you these days?

Dr. Hale:
Sure. And my role with Destination Pet as Chief Medical Officer, what’s interesting, I’ve never held a role of a Chief Medical Officer. This is my first C-suite role that I’ve been a vice president before. I was chosen for this role by Shane Kelly who’s a former CEO of Destination Pet. I was actually working in one of their hospitals as a clinician, and he had noticed my resume on his desk and actually came to Atlanta and met with me and talked about, “Well, you’re a clinician now, but maybe in the future, we might want to use you in other roles.” And so I said, “Sure, I would be interested in that if they came about.” Though at that time, I was thinking of stepping back from those types of roles since I’ve been doing them over 20 years. And this was around 2019, when I met Shane Kelly with Destination Pet. He promoted me to the Chief Medical Officer role in 2019. The Chief Medical Officer, we’re responsible for the strategy and the planning around the medical services, our doctor core in the veterinary group.

Dr. Hale:
So right now I’m working on, as I mentioned earlier, I really liked developing growing doctors and leaders. So I’ve established, what’s called a Medical Director Masterclass within Destination Pet, which is about a 12-week course in which I have all my medical directors that are cycling through right now, in which they’re learning leadership, more financial information, just all kinds of skills that will help them be better Medical Directors. And I always say these are things you can use in your personal life as well. I’m also establishing one of these for new graduates, but I’m calling it the NBA, the New Beginnings Academy. I want it to be able to say, “I’m sending you to the NBA.” But it’s also helping our new grads that need more support these days, not just the mentoring the medical piece, but it’s all also around leadership learning to work within a group or a team. Also, even some personal finance and budgeting information from financial planners. So I really get excited when I get to do things like that.

Dr. Hale:
I’m also going to be putting one of these together for our associate BVMs as well. So to me, our doctors are integral. Obviously we know this, right? We know that everywhere that they need a doctor, they really need a doctor, but they’re integral to our business. And I want our doctors to be, one, be content here, have a career path with us. And then they’re are going to be supportive as they’re in their career path with us. Whether it’s Medical Director Associate, a new graduate, we just want… I really get passionate about things like that.

Stacy Pursell:
Awesome. That’s so exciting. I love the NBA. So we might start seeing resumes that said I attended the NBA academy down the road. So I’m curious, successful people usually have some good daily habits that have allowed them to achieve success. What, what are some of the daily habits that you have allowed to help you achieve success throughout your career?

Dr. Hale:
I started running when I was about 28 and that was back when I was still at my first job in Tennessee. And I remember my first time jogging and I remember just doing a half a mile and I thought I’d done something. And then when I first did 10 mile… Two miles, I’m sorry. The most I jog was seven miles a day. And I get that for several years. So I say that to me, that taking care of my temple, my body is the first thing I do every morning. I get up, have a cup of coffee and I go run. If I can’t run, somethings happen, medically or knee hurts or something, I’ll walk. But running is what starts my day. I don’t even feel right if I haven’t run for the day. And I believe we have to take care of our temple, our body for everything else to work. That’s where I practice speeches. That’s where I clear my head. That’s where any angst I might be feeling, that run sort of helped set the tone for me for the day. And we have to take care of ourselves.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah. I like what you said about setting the tone for the day. One of the things that I do every morning is I make my bed. I, I can’t imagine just… I do it before I do anything else. I make my bed. I can’t imagine going through my day without doing that. So we all have those routines and I love that. What advice would you give the younger version of yourself?

Dr. Hale:
Well, it goes back to a little bit of what we talked about fear and fear and resilience. I said, “Don’t fear failure.” When you’re young, you want to please everybody, you want to have a certain facade to the world of how you want people to think of you. So always, I would say don’t fear failure, and don’t try to please everyone. You know what? Push them to please you. We’re always, I think when we’re young, we so want to fit in and we so want to be a part of a group or a team or thought of a certain way. We’re always contorting ourselves to please other people. So if I would tell anybody that, I mean, I even tell myself that today, don’t contort yourself to please other people and don’t fear failure.

Stacy Pursell:
So don’t fear failure and don’t be a people-pleaser. Very good advice. We also find that most successful people have some idiosyncrasies that can actually be their super powers. I’m curious if you have an idiosyncrasy, that’s actually a superpower.

Dr. Hale:
I would say organization and structure. If you give me anything that needs to be done, I can MacGyver it. I can come up with a program to get this done. Like my Medical Director Masterclass. How do I put that together? I am also working on Destination Pet Foundation, which were the charitable arm of Destination Pet. I’ve never put together a charity before, but it’s like, “Okay, how do I do that? Let me pull the team together. Start working on that.” So organization and structure, and I have this thing about emails. I don’t go to sleep with any unread emails. People consider that a superpower today because you can have anywhere from 50 to 500 emails, depending on where you work.

Stacy Pursell:
I need to get some of your good advice on that. That is one of the things that I struggle with the most is email and staying caught up. I’m curious, what do you struggle with the most?

Dr. Hale:
You know how they say that one of your strengths can be a weakness. Sometimes I’m too structured. I mean, to the point that I am almost telling people down to the nth degree of how to do something. But I’ve learned to allow people to come to me with solutions now. But I always know in the back of my head that I have a structure, a solution, if they don’t have one. And then I would say sometimes pushing too hard. I had a 360 done once a few years ago. And what some of the feedback from my direct reports was “Dr. Hale has very high standards.” And I chuckle when I say that, because I was like, “Well, should I be mediocre? Should I have low standards?” But I actually understand what they need. And really, that actually comes from my childhood. Just my parents always wanting me to do the best that I could and never taking less than that from me. And that’s what I tend to also expect the people that work with me. And sometimes I can push too hard in that respect.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah, because having high standards seems like a plus to me. Do you want it to lower my standards? That sounds like something that we should be striving, to have high standards. What message or principle do you wish you could teach everyone?

Dr. Hale:
I would say this, I’ll go back to the don’t listen to the naysayers, the resilience piece again. It’s okay to fall down. It’s okay to make a mistake. It’s not going to be end of the world. I mean, and as veterinarians, we make mistakes, we make a misdiagnosis. We can have a problem in surgery, I mean, that can result in some poor outcomes, unfortunately. But don’t let that outcome or that one thing that you make a mistake on, we’re so negative bias as humans, but don’t let the one thing either color the rest of your day or the rest of your week, or make you think that you can’t do something. Everybody fails in something. And I say often that I should be allowed to fail, make a mistake, and get back up and keep going just as anybody else does. So that’s why I always want to press upon people and do not fear that falling down.

Dr. Hale:
And it’s okay to admit when you’ve made a mistake, I’d rather you admit it and then come with a solution on how are we going to fix it going forward and know that it’s just not the end of the world. I think that’s what’s so tough with some of our veterinary community now, especially with social media, people want to tell you what they think of you. You have to block a lot of that out. And even if you have made a mistake, know that there’s another day coming. This too shall pass.

Stacy Pursell:
Yeah. Don’t get hung up on the failure. Don’t dwell on it, get over it, and move forward. And then, don’t listen to the negative voices, the naysayers. Great advice. Some of our guests say that they’ve had a key book that’s really helped them in their life or in their career, or has changed their mindset or their approach to success. Do you have a key book in your life that is impacted you the most? I’d love to hear that story.

Dr. Hale:
Well, it’s interesting. It’s a very small, very short book that I recommend to everyone that I either promote into leadership or is in leadership. It’s called The One Minute Manager. It’s a short read, but it was a very first book that I read in leadership that helped me to understand how to better interact with people. And I tell the story of my first job being promoted into Chief of Staff. I had hired my staff, had never done that before, but okay. Hired my staff. And I had a wonderful receptionist that can remember every client’s name and every pet’s name, but she couldn’t remember her duties. So it drove me crazy for the first three months. Why do I have to tell this person to do the same thing every day? Turn on the lights, how to end the day, how to close out the cash register. I started to wonder if I were speaking in another language. Well, I was. I wasn’t speaking her language.

Dr. Hale:
So The One Minute Manager helped me to learn better situational leadership, but also how to interact with her. And she was a great receptionist because she had the skill that you want receptionist to have. That openness, that joyfulness, that remembering everybody. And I had to come up with a way to help her otherwise. And the way that helped her was just a list. She needed everything written down on a list and she would do it and make sure it was done from there. So I recommend that book for every new manager, The One Minute Manager.

Stacy Pursell:
That’s great advice. And I was thinking, as you were saying that she probably needed a list and that said well. Well, Pam, you’ve got the mic. What is one thing that you want to share with our listeners of The People of Animal Health Podcast before you drop the mic today?

Dr. Hale:
Sure. So, I think our profession right now is getting a bad rep. In other words, we hear a lot about the tough times that some of our doctors going through, but it’s also a joyous and fulfilling profession and there’s nothing else I ever want to do with my life. And in fact, when you talk the most veterinarians, even though we may have tough days, and I know it’s different ways of doing things now with clients providing this instantaneous feedback on social media, that can be great or make you feel horrible. And this is still a fulfilling profession because I think if it was not, we wouldn’t have this growth in pet ownership and the need for more veterinarians. So I would say this, let’s remember to hold up a profession and not make it a bad place to be because it is a very good place to be. And sometimes I think we just have to adjust the way that we think about it.

Stacy Pursell:
Well, it is a good place to be, and there’s never been a better time to be a veterinarian. I mean, we mentioned the salaries are going up, there’s a shortage. So there are so many opportunities and you’re right. I think sometimes people tend to focus on the negative things, but there’s a whole lot of positive things happening in the veterinary profession as well. Well, Pam, I want to thank you again for being on our podcast today. We’re very grateful and it was very nice to visit with you.

Dr. Hale:
Stacy again, thank you very much for having me and hope to talk to you again soon.

Stacy Pursell:
Thank you.